I recently became aware of a young man in our congregation who is involved in the vilest of sexual addictions, yet considers himself a believer who has no qualms at all about admitting his sins and the pleasure that he gets from them. He has no concerns about his salvation either as he has received assurance from a new (?) doctrine that has been popularized by the book by Joseph Prince called DESTINED TO REIGN. It was probably no coincidence that a friend sent the book to me to look at. My curiosity and concern was definitely piqued.
As prudent Christians, many evangelicals realize that we are very possibly in the end times that Jesus talked about in Matthew 24. Knowing this, we need to be all the more aware of deception in our church and in doctrine. Remember Jesus himself said in Matthew 24:24 “For false Christ’s and FALSE PROPHETS will arise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.” Again in 2 Thessalonians 2:11&12 Paul says, “And for this reason God will send them a strong delusion, that they should believe the lie and they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.”
Even during the busy Christmas season, I could not keep away from this book and the theology it promotes. While there are too many ideas to expound on here, the main ideas seem to be 1) Nothing but blessings for the believer, 2) No longer a need to be concerned about God’s judgment as Grace has done away with the law 3) All sin, past and future, was forgiven at the cross for the believer and 4) repentance and confession of sin is never necessary.
BLEST BELIEVERS
In Chapter 1, I learned that God has called us as Christians to be a success, to enjoy wealth, to enjoy health, and to enjoy a life of victory. As soon as we understand his principals , we will see how easy and effortless the Christian walk really is. Prince uses Romans 5:17 …“For by one man‘s offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through one Jesus Christ” He then states that the word reign used here comes from the word basiluo (Greek) translated to basilica in English.. Since, he says, basilicas were used as law courts, that means we would have a kingly rule. Well, that’s a stretch to begin with. A basilica is simply a style of building that makes it good for any assembly including meeting places, law courts, funeral homes and often churches. Adam Clarke, translating from the original Greek, along with any major Bible Scholar I am aware of takes this scripture to mean that we will reign over death as a result of Jesus death and resurrection..
Prince fails to mention what Jesus says to expect if we follow him.
Jesus said in Matthew 5:11-12 “Blessed are you when they revile and persecute you and say all kinds of evil against you falsely for My sake. Rejoice and be exceedingly glad for great is your reward in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you” and again in Luke 6:22 Jesus said, “Blessed are you when men hate you and when they exclude you and revile you and caste your name as evil for the Son of Man’s sake.
Jesus also said in Luke 9:23 “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me.” In Matthew 7:14 Jesus said , “Narrow is the gate and DIFFICULT is the way which leads to life and few there be that find it. And in Luke 9:25 Jesus warns about riches saying, “For what shall it profit a man if he gains the whole world and is himself destroyed or lost.” !st Peter 3:17 “For it is better , if it is the will of God, to suffer for doing good than for doing evil.”
In Revelations 6:9, John says “I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they maintained.”
Living in a country with abundant wealth such as Singapore (where Prince lives) or the United States certainly makes it more plausible for persons whether Christian or simply diligent citizens to have a measure of wealth, But, is that God’s plan for everyone who loves him? Certainly and clearly it is not. In fact, Jesus said in Matthew 19:23 that it would be harder for the rich to get into heaven, and in Luke 18;24 he again lamented about how hard it would be for a rich man to get into the Kingdom of Heaven.
Jesus calls us to be willing to give up everything, including our life, to follow Him. Paul, himself, who wrote Romans 5:17, was often beaten, shipwrecked, and finally martyred. (Prince foolishly states that Paul’s thorn could not have been illness--he fails to note in Galatians 4 : 13-14 Paul clearly states he was sick with an infirmity of the flesh). Christians are daily persecuted and martyred around the world for the sake of their faith and the very survival of Christianity depended on the martyrs who came before us. Reigning might sound good for itchy ears but it isn’t what we are guaranteed in this present life.
A GOD OF MERCY ONLY--(New Revelation)
On page 32 Prince reveals his belief that God is continually restoring his truths to the church and the revelation of the finished work will continue to get stronger. Any time new revelation is taught, we must be reminded of how often this has been the basis of new cult’s such as Mormonism, Jehovah‘s witness, Christian Scientist etc. This new revelation of Prince’s continues to be the gift of righteousness to reign in life. I.e., more grace and less judgment. The loving and merciful side of God is always emphasized in Prince’s teaching.
While Prince speaks much of the fact that the new covenant does away with the old covenant , he fails to distinguish between the commandments which are still in effect and the ceremonial law that was necessary only until Christ became the sacrifice. Paul was often speaking to new Christians/Jews who kept going back to ceremonial law. --after all as Jews that was very natural for them and , no doubt, they still had many friends who were still in ceremonial law. Paul confirms this in Galations 4:10 when he says “You observe days and months and seasons and years.
As for the commandments, read Matthew 19:17-21 when Jesus clearly told the rich young man he should keep the commandments if he wanted to enter into life……“shall not murder, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, you shall not bear false witness, Honor your father and mother and You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
Prince states a merciful God would not Judge America or any other country because of what was done at the cross(pg 49). That, he says is because God is not willing that any should perish. Wow that’s a relief--or is it? In 2nd Cor. 5:11 Paul says that knowing the terror of the Lord we persuade men………..Heb 10:30b & 31 “ The Lord will judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God’ and Luke 12:5 … “Fear Him who…has the power to cast into hell:,, Of course Revelation has an entire book on the judgments that will be forthcoming on Nations and people. If we believe that God is all powerful, we must believe that whether or not he caused 9;11, He could have stopped it so therefore did allow judgment to come.
ALL SINS PAST AND FUTURE WERE FORGIVEN AT THE CROSS.
Prince continually assures the Believer that, although he does not condone sin , all was forgiven when Jesus died for the Believer so we never have to worry about it again. On pg 53 Prince says ‘If you receive a word from someone which brings your sins to remembrance or instills an expectation of punishment for sins in your life, don’t fear it, just throw it out the window..” On page 45, he says that , for the believer, ‘God took all your sins, even the sins that you have not yet committed, and put them all on Jesus. All future sins have been fully judged at the cross.’ On page 138, he states that “Believers are forever righteous. On page 233 he says “you cannot be under grace without becoming holy.” On page 99 he states that he has never encountered anyone who after receiving grace says “now I can go out and sin”. Really???I know of many people who truly served and loved the Lord at one time and have returned to a life of sin--don ‘t you? Just get any church directory from a few years back and you will see how many did not stay the course.
Prince does not attempt to explain the many examples that were given in the Gospels such as the 5 wise and 5 foolish virgins, the seed that fell on good ground but was choked by the things of this world, or the seed that sprung up and then withered or the ninety and nine when the shepherd searched for the one who had left the fold. Even Jesus taught in the Lord’s Prayer that we should examine ourselves daily when he said “give us this day our daily bread and forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors.”
In Colossians 1:22 & 23 Paul admonishes the believers “ to present you holy and blameless and irreproachable in his sight IF indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the Gospel which you have heard…… Also 2nd Peter 2:20 &21 say ‘For after they have escaped the pollutions of this world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome. The latter end is worse for them than the beginning, for it would have been better for them to have never known the way of righteousness than having known it, to turn from the bold commandment delivered to them. John 15:10 “If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love…….”
What Prince believes and teaches is almost beyond Calvinism because most Calvinists, including John Macarthur, will say of a person who practices a sinful life, that they never knew the Lord in the first place I.e. they never studied God’s word to see what would be required of them.
NEVER MIND REPENTENCE
Prince teaches that the word Repent actually only means to turn around.
The new Webster’s inter-collegiate dictionary refers to the root word penitent to describe repent as remorse, sorrow, for sins, contrition etc.
Prince also teaches that since sins are already forgiven, there is no need to repent of them anyway. What we need instead is to be forgiveness -conscious. See page 103 where he says “even when they (Christians) say a wrong thing, do a wrong thing or have a wrong thought…….they see the blood of Jesus continually washing them……..because they are forgiveness-conscious. they experience victory over sin.” Prince uses the example of the sins committed by the Corinthians to say that Paul simply reminded them that their bodies were temples of the Holy Spirit (pg 107) and did not tell them to repent. Well, Paul didn’t exactly ignore the sin either as though it were already forgiven.. See verses 1 Cor 5:5 when Paul told them to “deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that that his spirit might be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. Clearly, the sin required more attention than simply reminding the offender that he needed to be aware that he was already forgiven. How about getting his attention to the seriousness of the sin and repentance from it? Also note 2 Cor 12:21 written to the Believers at Corinth in which Paul states “Lest when I come again, my God will humble me among you & I shall mourn for many who have sinned before and have not repented. On page 234, Prince states that we are not told to repent (I.e. turnaround) from sins but from dead works which, he says, are not really sins. I.e. if you pray thinking that makes you right with God , that is a dead work. Similarly, If you study the Bible because you think doing so makes you right with God--forget it. You need, he says, to study and pray knowing you are right with God. So, in effect we should not be concerned about our sins but do need to be sure we never pray or search the scripture for answers simply to learn what is right--we just need to accept that we are right because at some time in the past we “turned around“.
While Prince writes his book as the secret to effortless success, wholeness and victorious living, the Bible tells us in Ephesians 6:11-16 that we will need to put on the whole armor of God so that we may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil, for we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers of darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places ………………
My heart breaks for the young man who thinks he can continue to practice any kind of sin and be considered holy before God, for the Bible says in Eph 4:7 & 8a “ for God did not call us to uncleanness, but to holiness. Therefore he who rejects this does not reject man, but God..”.
Yes, it is wonderful to hear a message of Grace, but until we understand that God is also a God of judgment, can we really know the depths of his Grace? As Paul admonished the believers in Romans, 2:2 “ But we know that the judgment of God is according to truth against those who practice such things” and again to the believers In Galatians 6:7 “Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that will he also reap.”
Remember, it is in God’s commandments that we learn the heart of God and what he expects of us. . How many will pay the ultimate price for the belief promoted in Destined to Reign? It is, after all, the same old lie, that Satan told Eve when he convinced her, that deliberate sin could go unpunished.
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
Gladys for President!
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThanks for informing the body of Christ about this. Would appreciate your comments or more info regarding JP's ministries and how should we handle these false teachings. God bless you.
ReplyDeleteHi there. Do you have a brain and commen sense. Where in that book Joseph Prince said go and live in sin and don't be mind full of your sins or whatever?
ReplyDeleteJoseph Prince helped so many individuals to live free of sin and He also helped people to free from neumerous addictions etc. what are you doing? What is your problem? hate? jealousy? envey? towards the man of God? Why do you call such an awesome person false prophet?
Please use your brain and commen sense before you open your mouth to attack Joseph Prince and before making such an ugly statment Thanks
August 28, 2009 1:04 PM
Hi
ReplyDeleteThe man described in your first paragraph has misunderstood the message. This sort of misunderstanding also happened to the apostle Paul - he was accused of saying that it's OK to sin.
Ps Prince describes that sort of person (who deliberately sins and says it's OK) as embracing disgrace, not grace.
Get it right, and ask the Holy Spirit to guide you in understanding the truth of Grace
Hi grace -
ReplyDeleteI think these sorts of people base their accusations on head knowledge, they do not appear to know what intimacy with Jesus is.
I could easily go through her blog and argue with it, to show where she has totally misunderstood. But I don't know if I could be bothered and it would probably be a waste of effort anyway.
From my own personal experience JP is right in what he says. I spent years and years being sin-conscious and law-conscious. My sins got worse. Once I became Jesus-conscious instead and embraced His Amazing Grace, sin patterns fell away, almost effortlessly. That way is good but I cannot boast about my own efforts. I'm a testimony that the strength of sin is the law.
When Jesus said the way is DIFFICULT - He was talking about when you try to follow the Law. He also said His yoke is easy and burden is light.
People who misunderstand the message of Grace will probably never really get this, they are too blinded by some sort of "doctrinal correctness". (The devil himself probably knows doctrine better than all of us!).
Dear readers of this blog,
ReplyDeleteI write this response because I feel sad that a cautionary post by Sis Gladys Russell has turned into an occasion for some others, I presume they are Christians, to carry out a negative defence that lacks cogency and accurate scriptural backing and response.
As Christians, we should speak the truth in love, no matter what our opinions are. The truth is, Sis Gladys has a point to make, and has backed it up with scripture.
Often, part of our response to another believer is an emotively driven response, or purely be reactionary because we feel strongly about it- rightly so! It matters to us!
However, true Christians need to be careful to watch how they speak the truth in love. Words can be caustic or, can be laced with the blessed fruits of a life truly rooted in Christ Jesus- with love, patience, thankfulness and care and kindness. These are the fruits of the spirit of God. We should aim to correct others with such humility and meekness of spirit.
However, in this case, I do believe that it is not Sis Gladys Russell that needs to be corrected, but rather, it is that the doctrinal truths in the book we are discussing (and has been the subject of this blog entry- which probably was how we all ended up on this page- via a google search) that need to be addressed.
There are three main issues I wish to discuss:
1. Pastor Joseph Prince may well be a Christian (this is not for me to judge), but from the materials in his doctrinal teachings (including his teachings online and from his material and his magazine covers and merchandise and so on), strike me as being very questionable on doctrinal grounds. There are several elements of worldly values that have been brought into his teaching, much of which falls under the category of fellow teachers like Pastor Joel Osteen (of whom I too believe may well be a true Christian and of whom's salvation is not up to me to judge), but they emphasise "Destiny, Ambition, Grace, Prosperity, Name it-claim it, Wealth in the current lifetime, and Hope". Now, none of the above are wrong, but when the risk of each of these elements risks becoming the basis for doctrinal foundations of security instead of JESUS' message, it runs the risk of running foul of the gospel's true message.
Doctrinally, Pastor Prince says many more things in addition to the material that Sis Gladys mentioned above. One of his "Destined to Reign- Devotional" books had an entry on Jesus being a rich man because of the gifts bestowed Him as a child by all the wealthy and wise men and visiting kings. This form of exigesis or interpretation is heretical in that it sounds like something one of the prosperity teachers like Pastor Bob Yandian or a grace preacher overtly focuses on, corrupting the Word of God's truth- Jesus was poor, homeless, had nowhere to lay His head, whilst on earth. Jesus laid aside His majesty and riches and power as GOD to become a man, and having become a man, humbled himself even further to the point of death, as a wrongfully accused criminal even.
I know that you two may know these truths and I pray that you discover these sides to the Christian faith, so that you both may come to great knowledge of who you are in Christ, and realise that as Christians, you two have a great calling and heritage in Christ, but one that does not necessarily manifest itself with blessings and wealth and prosperity in this current life. IN fact, I pray that you will stand firm in the faith in JESUS, and come to know HIS word and truth and sustenance as trials and tribulations will come in this lifetime as JESUS himself teaches us. We need to hold true to Him in times of suffering, pain and rejection and sickness. Do not fear, God is with you both, and with each and everyone of us who believes in HIM!
(END OF PART ONE--------CONTINUED BELOW)
(START OF PART TWO-------CONTINUED FROM ABOVE)
ReplyDelete2. Pastor Prince omits to teach on SIN and REPENTANCE. This is another commonality Pastor Prince shares with Pastor Joel Osteen, and they happen to minister to some of the largest congregations in their respective nations of Singapore and the USA, as well as headline conferences in mega Church assemblies in the Assemblies of God movement and in the Pentecostal Church, such as the Hillsong Conference in Sydney Australia. The main problem, is exactly as Gladys has pointed out, that they teach the false doctrine of not needing to preach repentance. I hear what you both are saying about GRACE abounding and that the strength of sin is the law, but GOD was the one who created the law too. He gave it to prove and show to mankind that they could not possibly do and adhere to it, not that it was the basis for which the would go about sinning. The law in fact kept in a basic level of morality and "religion" in and amongst the people for basic civility. However, JESUS, true, as you both said, OVERCOMES THE WORLD and FULFILS THE LAW! Jesus however, did indeed say His way is by GRACE and His yoke is easy and burden is light, because HE, as the propitiation of sins, and the expiation of sins, grants penal substitutionary atonement for the sins of mankind and reconciles us with God the Father, and anyone who believes in HIM and HIS WORK ON THE CROSS attains eternal life, by GRACE, just by believing in HIM. This justification by faith saves us all, however, He does say that you will have trials and tribulations and DIFFICULT times on earth- persecutions will come, because no servant is greater than their master, and just as HE was persecuted and rejected and hated, we too will be.
Pastor Prince and Pastor Osteen negate to talk about SIN and REPENTANCE purely because they want to focus on love and hope, because that is truly encouraging and frees people from RELIGION, the very thing JESUS got rid of when He died on the cross, because instantly, it was by GRACE from Jesus and not by RELIGION or WORKS that one got saved. However, repentance and true election into the body of Christ is marked by FRUITS in Christ, and a LIFE tied with HIM. Faith without works is dead as James shares, and this is because later, upon justification, we are now sanctified by Christ and we need to yield to Christ daily and to HIS WILL. As Gladys rightly points out, repentance is a true matter of contrite will, and from a desire to change. Pastor Prince and Pastor Osteen do not teach falsely on this matter, but they do omit. Even Jesus preached repentance and left it in the Lord's Prayer. The truth is indeed, there is always a need to preach grace and hope, but there is a reality of a need to be repenting of our sins and to be forgiven for it, and to acknowledge that we are inherently depraved as fallen humans, and need God to fix us, not to inspire us and give us hope and love alone. God's love is often, to care for His children. And whom He loves, HE also chastises and punishes. It is not doctrinally correct to teach grace alone. God is also a God who judges.
The answer? I do not have the answers except that I know the Bible does. We need to be balanced in our doctrine. Many reformed and Calvinist theologians move toward too radical a view of "doctrinal correctness and head knowlegde" that they negate grace and God's heart of love. Yet, many uniting pentecostals and Arminians argue for "grace and abundance and abounding love" they forget that God is Holy and tolerates no sin, and fail to see that the fruit of a life sown in as the branches connected to Christ the vine, has to yield the fruits of the spirit.
(END OF PART TWO-------CONTINUED BELOW)
(PART THREE-------CONTINUED FROM ABOVE)
ReplyDeleteWhat we need is a balance and a healthy view of God's doctrine. One place either of you or for that matter anyone searching can begin, is to look at Pastor Mark Driscoll's series on DOCTRINE for MARS HILL CHURCH in Seattle, WA, USA. That church happens to be one that has the balance in the middle between being Charismatic and being faithful to Reformed/Baptist/Anglican/etc theology.
3. What does Pastor Prince and Pastor Osteen's ministries consist of in terms of actual fruits? We can judge them by their fruits. Now, I had a brother in Christ whom i love dearly at Hillsong Church who once told me that to judge by fruits meant to see their results. Results include things like Church Congregation size (how many thousand members), size of TV ministry, number of young professionals attending vis a vis older folk, number of new members, etc, merchandise available, books published by Christian publishers and Media Outlets, size of music ministry, quality of music sound engineering, "brand" name of Pastor, etc. Now, alot of these characteristics would doubtlessly strike a true Christian as being things that are sidetracked or misaligned with the very things God has called us to focus on- the INWARD parts. In 1 Samuel, God tells us that HE looks on the INSIDE while mankind looks on the external. In Revelation, there is a Church that is small and low in numbers and has poverty issues, known as the Church of Smyrna, and this is a Church that JESUS loves and comforts. The size, and quantity over quality of a Church is not the measurement we bring to a Church. Pastor Prince and Pastor Osteen pastor two of the world's biggest churches in their home nations, but is that the yardstick? How many of those Church members know and understand what it means to truly be Christian and have sound doctrine? This is unquantifiable don't you agree? Exactly! Just as you would not try and judge how many of those are Christians (only God does have that right), we are not to judge Churches on their small size or for their lack of "modern" ministries too. We should look to their fruit that JESUS talks about. What are these fruit? The fruits are of kindness, gentleness, patience, peace, longsuffering, and so on- all the qualities of JESUS.
The humility of servant hearted leadership is the main aspect! The focus should not be on the ones who are the "Apollos' " and great "brand" name Church teachers, and not based on their books published, good looks or articulation abilties. Faithfulness, not fruitfulness. These are the tests. For me, personally, I feel Pastor Prince and Pastor Osteen, what with their mega Churches and personalities and their media profiles (paying to be aired on major Christian TV networks the world over) are partly parlaying their desire to minister positive messages to the world, yet, on the other hand, run the risk of self promotion and worldly vanity of the flesh. Their CD covers and book covers resemble self help gurus of the world like Tony Robbins' works, and often feature cheesy soft focus photographs of them acting good looking, and the focus is shifted away from glory to JESUS, and onto themselves, even if they might say it is us who are losing the plot in judging them for the trivial banalties. The truth is, the Bible is clear about Ministry LEADERS and OVERSEERS' qualifications and the fruits of what a life sowed in service in humility and others' centredness reaps. I would be careful to judge these two Pastors, but probably already have, because i do feel they run the risk as I've said consistently of self focus rather than JESUS- focusing.
(END OF PART THREE------CONCLUDED BELOW)
(PART FOUR- CONCLUSION------CONTINUED FROM ABOVE)
ReplyDeleteAll in all, there is a road that each of us has to journey on, which we can't blame on any Pastor or shift responsibilty to any book or one doctrine or heresy. At the end of the day, each of these Pastors is accountable to God, and so are each of us. We should not judge each other, but be careful to warn each other, as Sis Gladys has, with scriptural backing, and for that, thank you Sis Gladys Russell. However, we must also be careful to be balanced in our doctrinal correctness and to remember that IF WE HAVE ALL THE KNOWLEDGE AND ALL THE TEACHING AND ALL THE MATERIALS but HAVE NOT LOVE, we have nothing, as the Apostle Paul shares. Therefore, if we are to correct or discuss such matters and call "heretical" certain teachings or call "false prophets" certain pastors and leaders, we need to be backed by the scripture which is God breathed for reproof and for correction and training. For, God's WORD is the only standard that stands the test of time, and God's word warns us about the dangers of false teachers constantly in 1 Peter/2 Peter, 1 Tim/2 Tim, 1 John, etc, but ultimately, we are also people who must be quick to LOVE and not judge.
God Bless and with love,
Stephen Charles L.Wen Thanabalan
(END OF PART FOUR------GOD BLESS YOU ALL!)
Part One of Three:
ReplyDeleteI am a Baptist that does not agree with everything Joseph Prince believes. I am sort of shocked that he would hang out with Joel Osteen that seems to stand for nothing as I personally witnessed on Larry King Live.
I do agree that the one commenter here was a bit harsh saying, "do you have a brain and common sense." Yet we have a reviewer here that said:
"I write this response because I feel sad that a cautionary post by Sis Gladys Russell has turned into an occasion for some others, I presume they are Christians, to carry out a negative defence that lacks cogency and accurate scriptural backing and response."
I fail to see his last sentence carried out himself in his long 4 part article of using an accurate Scriptural backing. He seems to share more personal opinions that Scriptural fact. He seems to point out JP's associations to certain individuals as somehow proving bad grace teachings I guess.
I have recently read Joseph Prince book 'Destined to Reign' and found it to be an absolute blessing. Those that despise the book question whether JP is saved or not makes me "presume" as our long winded reviewer stated whether JP opponents are saved or not.
I read the negative comment against JP that somehow true repentance is a contrite will. Excuse me????? I know that I only completed 3 years of Bible at Bob Jones University so I am not PhD but where does Repentance mean "contrition"????? It doesn't. It simply means "after thought." You can have heavy tears and sorrow but that doesn't mean that you have changed your mind. God Himself changed His mind (repented) without a contrite will in the OT. Even some scholars are honest enough to say that they believe contrition is in repentance but that it does not mean that.
JP is accused of avoiding repentance in his teachings???? Sure, if you are defining repentance as a continual state of bashing yourself for sin. We should notice that the apostle Paul in the book of Romans that spells out salvation wasn't big on repentance. How about in Corinthians were speaking to those that lived as mere men???? I do not see a huge emphasis on having a contrite will but a change of mind to return to right living. Some actually should have been expressing sorrow for the sins allowed in the church but it was not a prerequisite.
End of Part One
Part Two of Three
ReplyDeleteI love when the book of James is quoted "faith without works is dead" as meaning a "dead faith cannot save." Salvation is not in the context but saved people are. People quote verse 19 about the demons having faith and trembling as some proof that works is needed. However, the faith was said to be in a monotheistic God and not the gospel of grace. Anyone should be able to realize that the demons could have all the faith in the world and all the works in the world and it would never save them from sin so using demons to demonstrate true saving faith was a poor choice on James part, but I think we can see that James was not talking about true saving faith. We look at the word "save" and immediately assume "salvation from sin" and this is erroneous because James more than once used the word "save(d)" and it did not mean salvation from sin as one can read James 5 to see that for him or herself. The context was about the poor man that the believers were despising. Can such a faith save (deliver) him (him = the poor man). Look at the preceding verses and the verses immediately after verse 14. You must compare Romans 4 to James 2 to get the accurate picture. Paul said that we are not justified before God by works. When you read in James 2 that man is not justified by faith alone then remember that his works are not before God but before men. Also remember, if James 2 is teaching that Abraham's works proves that he was saved then also remember that the work Abraham performed was 20 YEARS LATER AFTER HE ALREADY WAS SAVED and not some immediate action confirming his faith. He was justified some 20 years prior before this recorded action.
Our author here against JP doesn't seem to understand the difference between the kingdom of heaven (Davidic covenant) and the gospel of grace. A specific message was given to Israel and a specific message was given to us today. People fail to realize that Jesus did not start preaching about His death until His last year in ministry. They assume the good news Jesus and His disciples preached initially was the same message Paul preached to us and this is error. Remember, the disciples did not understand what Jesus was talking about nor the religious leaders when Jesus started speaking about His upcoming death. Peter clearly did not believe Jesus had to die and was rebuked for it. Jesus did differentiate between grace and works. Come unto me all that are heaven laden and I will give you rest unto your souls is grace. Come after me and take up your cross is discipleship and not salvation. The one message is "come unto" and the other is "come after." We have to be really careful because discipleship salvation (Lordship salvation) is no salvation at all but eternal damnation heresy that can never save.
Israel was commanded to repent so that the times of refreshing would come. They were expecting this kingdom (Acts 1:6). This is not a Gentile kingdom but one promised to Israel. If we do not rightly divide then we can believe about anything.
End of Part Two
Part Three of Three
ReplyDeleteThe author against JP seems confused about what JP writes when she says "On page 99 he states that he has never encountered anyone who after receiving grace says “now I can go out and sin”."
JP distinguishes about those living under grace not sinning. You cannot claim to be living under grace while sinning it up. The teaching of grace does not say "sin it up" but to "deny all manners of ungodliness." Those that go back to a lifestyle of sin are no longer living under a grace message. Our reviewer against JP seems to think that you deny all manners of ungodliness to get grace. That you sin not to experience forgiveness. Such people have it backwards because we are forgiven to sin not and we are grace oriented because it is grace that teaches us to deny all manners of ungodliness. To teach otherwise is to believe a perversion.
I can go on and on. Let me state that I do not agree with JP on his prosperity gospel or the word of faith movement. However, his position concerning grace is absolutely wonderful. I don't agree with everything his book has to say but when it comes to free grace then I am right there with JP every step of the way. I am thankful for such people as him that preaches the grace truth that liberates people. JP doesn't make light of sin as our reviewer would like you to think. JP wants you to see your sins in light of that grace that will teach you to deny it. The apostle Paul repeatedly pointed his listeners back to who they are in Christ as the motivation to quit such sins. Paul never once said, "You are in danger of hell fire." You do not find even a "Turn or Burn" gospel presentation. Paul preached grace and so does JP. If you can read his book and remained unaffected for Christ then nothing this side of heaven can help you. You clearly are law bound and do not even know it. May God open your eyes to receive His wonderful free gift of salvation.
'If you can read his book and remained unaffected for Christ then nothing this side of heaven can help you'. @free...I never knew JP wrote the Bible
ReplyDelete"And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me." Sounds like Jesus Christ himself taught the 'Lordship Salvation'
ReplyDelete"For he that is called in the Lord, being a servant, is the Lord's freeman: likewise also he that is called, being free, is Christ's servant" (1 Corinthians 7:22-24). The real damnable salvation heresy is the kind that is taught by people like JP suggesting that you can accept Christ as Saviour without accepting him as LORD.
"I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish"......Jesus taught a turn or burn Gospel presentation. That is good enough for me and certainly PAUL
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteMy Brothers and Sisters in Christ,
ReplyDeleteI believe that the Grace Gospel is the truth.
I don't care what you believe in when it comes down to it. I know what is the truth. As long as we all believe that Jesus Christ is our Lord and Savior and He died for our sins on the cross and rose again, I am happy.
We are all brothers and sisters in Christ, don't fight dirty (meant for both sides of the argument).
In answering a question about the topics, Joseph Prince does talk about SIN and REPENTENCE. I believe the CD is "Set Free from Sin Through Grace" but don't quote me on that (helpful *sarcastic* I know :))
In repetition, JP has asked for people to not defend him i.e. with all due respect, respect his wishes and shut-up.
To those who disagree with him, please show him your highest respect as he is* your brother in Christ. *Yes...I know...God only knows that but you can assume.
May God Bless All of You,
Your Brother in Christ
I once thought as you do about these ministers, however, and I'm not trying give myself a pat on the back, I never criticized any of their teachings. I never felt I was in any position to do so. I can't claim that I have all revelation and therefore be in a position to show other's how wrong these ministers are.
ReplyDeleteI understand what your saying about the "prosperity" teaching but I feel you're missing the point. You see, it's not that God our Father want's us to be "wealthy" for riches sake it's that He is a very Good and Loving Father that want's the BEST for us. When He speaks of suffering He is talking about suffering for His NAME'S sake, not just suffering. You see the difference? God doesn't want you to suffer just for suffering's sake. The only suffering He is referring to is suffering for being a Christian through those who may mock you for being one, give you a hard time for being a Christian.
Say you're a child of famous parents who are not very well liked. These parents want the best for you however they warn you saying because you are our children and have our name you will suffer because of that name. But don't confuse what God wants for your life for the sufferings you may have by Society for who's you are. That's where many brother's and sister's in Christ are missing it. 1 John 2 tells us that God wants us to prosper in ALL things and be in health.
You see within the context of a relationship with God the Father and Jesus Christ we can expect great and wonderful benefits from that relationship. You have to understand that it is a relationship based on LOVE not on LAWS. Think about it, who has a relationship with anyone based on "laws"? Is your relationship with your parents or your children or you friends based on some list you hand out to them expecting them to follow BEFORE you can love them? Obviously not. Don't you see it's the same with God your Father. He doesn't want you to approach Him with LAWS in your heart He wants you LOVE. As you get to know your parents, children and friends and begin to realize certain things they don't like or DO like BECAUSE of your LOVE for them it causes you to behave or RESPOND appropriately. You see? That's the kind of relationship God wants with all of us. One based on LOVE not LAW. Not be "sin" conscious but JESUS conscious. Focusing on what Jesus did for us, God's love for us through Him and in that way we respond to God with LOVE not LAW. We love Him BECAUSE He FIRST loved us.
ReplyDeleteEven in our most intimate relationships we fail people, it's no different in our relationship with God. It's not an excuse for wrong behavior it's the reality of being human. You don't stop loving your children because they did something you didn't like. But understand that God loves you not because of any good you might or might not do, He loves you because of what His Son did for us. When we fall God doesn't get mad at us because we failed Him, He get's upset the same way a parent gets upset for a child who does something that the parent knows will hurt the child NOT hurt the relationship between the parent and child. You see? God wants to be there to help us when we do fall. His love is what brings us closer to Him not anything we might do. Remember it is GOD'S, not our, Goodness that LEADS us to repentance or a changed heart. It's our relationship with Him. Rest in His love for you believing that He wants the very best for you. He doesn't want His children to suffer want, struggle through life, be unhealthy etc. Notice that many of God's servants were very wealthy. Wealth came as a RESULT of their relationship with God the Father who loves us. It doesn't mean we'll all be Bill Gates it just means that we must understand God's Goodness that He wants to exercise in our lives if we'd allow Him to do that. Remember God takes pleasure in the prosperity of His servant. If you are a Christian then that means YOU. You are His servant. A servant knows who he serves and God want's the very best for all His servants. Believe it and receive it.
God Bless You and Keep You
I do not entirely agree with 'prosperity gospel' but do believe God wants us to have life in abundance. Note that no church, no one can be perfectly right except The wonderful Counselor, Comforter n Teacher of all truths. The Holy Spirit will tell n remind us things of Lord Jesus. What really matters is that we central our lives around n live in intimate relationship with Lord Jesus Christ, continuously increasing in the knowledge of our Lord -n not continuously putting our minds on what we can get out of righteousness in Christ although all things will come automatic when we truly seek His Kingdom first!- Be,in relationship with God not out of motive to seek material blessings but because we should love God n seek His Kingdom first. While we must be cautious n reject false teachings, let's not deny that grace (NOT abusing it for abounding grace as sin increases!) does liberate n cause one to return n draw near to Lord Jesus again each time we stumble (again-especially for backslided christians-). Our God, the Holy Spirit Who convict the world of guilt does such conviction that leads to repentance n reminds one the flowing grace for starting afresh; to make a choice of staying committed on the path of living a life pleasing to God; all of these conviction moments happening within indescribable n undefinable moments...however long it all took in seconds,minutes(?)...it is all by the mysterious workings of the Holy Spirit touching our inner man. Whatever we have heard, or have read from books, let us remember as written in Ecclesiastes "of making many books there is no end n much study wearies the body. Now all has been heard; here is the conclusion of the matter: Fear God n keep his commandments,for this is the whole duty of man.For God will bring every deed into judgment, including every hidden thing,whether it is good or evil."
ReplyDeleteLet's be careful not to judge hastily but heed the word found in 2 Tim 4:1-5 In the presence of God n of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living n the dead, n in view of his appearing n his kingdom, I give u this charge: Preach the Word; be prepared in season n out of season; correct, rebuke n encourage - with great patience n careful instruction. For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears from the truth n turn aside to myths. But u, keep your head in all situations, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, discharge all the duties of your ministry."
Today, we can be distracted even more easily by any messages n events around the world thru advancing technologies, we can only do our utmost best to devote ourselves in prayers for others be it loved ones n fellow churches in the entire Body of Christ.
I believe that a servant of God being accused of teaching lawlessness is nothing new and even the apostle Paul was and is accused of lawlessness. I made a Youtube video (yours truly is in it) and welcome anyone
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aZRbMZtoPY
I believe that it's not so much what JP says that's the problem but rather what he omits that is the problem.
ReplyDeleteAnd this is hard to discern by young believers, who have not yet recognised that "the sum of thy word is truth"
For example I could not find any teaching of his on "unless a man forsake all that he has, he cannot be my disciple"
Nor have I heard any preaching on denying self.
It sounds like a very worldly kind of gospel.
Maybe I just missed it, if so then I'll be pleased to have erred.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteFor "God is not mocked, for 'whatever' a man sows, (extends outwardly to others) that he will also reap (gather into himself)." Gal.6:7
ReplyDelete"Even as I have seen, Those who plow iniquity And sow trouble reap the same." Job 4:8
"Sow for yourselves righteousness, Reap in mercy" Hsa.10:12
With sin comes consequences, with repentance comes forgiveness, and with Obedience comes rewards.
I have been a Christian for more than 20 years. I have stuggled with feeling unworthy of God's blessings in my life becaused I have always thought that God will only bless me if and when I can be perfect. Since reading JP's book, I have understood that God will bless me just because He is gracious and not because I can do anything to deserve His blessing.
ReplyDeleteI now walk with so much joy because I am so aware of the sacrifice that God made on behalf. I find it so much easier to be a "better person" because everytime I am drawn towards doing the "wrong" thing, I am reminded of the sacrifice that God made on my behalf and I am able to make a better decision purely because of that. An understanding of the magnitude of God's grace in our lives teaches us to say "no" to ungodliness.
I am more patient and understanding of other christians because I am so aware that the God who began a good work in their lives will complete it in them.
Thanks JP for the contribution you made in my life, looking forward to the next book you publish.
It would be great to listen to testimonies of people who have read the book. Sometimes theological (or whatever) arguments do cloud the great work that the Holy Spirit is doing in peoples' lives.
DND
Im a Singaporean and Joseph Prince and other mega churches are simply scamming the local populace with their give and God will give you back doctrines. They have built personality cults around themselves so strong you get followers not unlike those here who struck hard at Grace for "daring to have dissenting thoughts and speech about this AWESOME man". You get Junior pastors who give 10 min speeches praising Prince about how humble he is , how great he is etc etc.
ReplyDeleteTheir churches are multi million dollar structures and they tell their followers, give and God will reward you back materially. Presently one church is under investigation and Prince's church has been quick to distance itself from that other church. There is also known rivalry between the two churches with followers attacking each other online. And the competition to be the bigger church.
My question is since when in the bible did building a expensive building matter? Since when did pastors drive BMW 7 series, stay in multi million dollar properties, wear armani suits and draw fat pay cheques. Mind you these guys were just your normal man in the street before they became pastors and now they are like CEOs. Oh yes... I forgot... their followers will always say... You dont understand, my pastor is very blessed by God. And since when was it Christian like to verbally abused those who question? Anyway read and decide for yourselves...
Here are some links for all to see on the situation in Singapore.
http://sg.yfittopostblog.com/2010/06/02/what-next-for-city-harvest/
http://sg.yfittopostblog.com/2010/05/31/city-harvest-church-members-under-investigation/
http://sg.yfittopostblog.com/2010/06/16/pastors-wife-questioned-by-police/
http://class95cafes.wordpress.com/2010/06/01/news-update-church-members-probed-investigation-into-alleged-misuse-of-church-funds-following-complaints/
http://sg.yfittopostblog.com/2010/06/15/singaporeans-react-to-controversial-new-creation-sermon/
http://www.straitstimes.com/BreakingNews/Singapore/Story/STIStory_536564.html
Right on sister. Well said. I do believe all our sins have been paid for eternally. However, they are not to be taken in a blaise' attidude that seems to be touted in the book. Indeed there is a lack of rightly dividing scripture between the shadows of things that were to come (rites) and moral law. Very scary. That is why I left many Word of Faith teachings myself and became a bible believing Anglican. I heard Hagin (who was not all wrong) exalt confession above the Cross. He actually stated the Cross is a place of defeat! "God forbid except I glory in the Cross wherein I was crucified to the world and the world to me!" There is power in the Cross.
ReplyDeleteFather MichaelAllerton+
TheMissionceec.weebly.com
I can't believe all you christians putting eachother down. is Christ divided? All of you should be ashamed of yourselves. If you believe God wants you broke, busted, discusted and sick. Then quit your job, go live in a cardboard box and stay away from the doctor. But if you believe God is good and a faithful father who takes pleasure in the prosperity of His servant then thats the way He will manifest Himself to you. But please stop putting eachother down.
ReplyDelete@ seth well said!
ReplyDeleteEXCELLENT Post!! Keep up the good work! and God Bless you for descerning correctly...so many Christians are being fooled by these False Teachers..... THEY paying attendtion to their sinful desires rather than serving Christ the way He wants us too!
ReplyDeleteAny comments about Pastor Quiboloy who claimed that he is the appointed son of God, he claimed that Jesus already came back and that is him. Visit this link: www.kingdomofjesuschrist.org
ReplyDeleteThe building that most call the church is in reality a prison that ultimately ends up elevating man no matter how well intended it started out to be. For almost 2000 years now the devil has established the deception that is very successful today, it is what most call the church. The building that most call the chruch has become widely used by leaders, lay people and pastors as a platform of using fear, guilt, manipulation and intimidation to keep you coming back. That is actually what is called WITCHCRAFT. The Lord called us to go out into the WORLD and preach the gospel and baptize people in the name of the Father, the Son and The Holy Ghost and He said signs would follow us of miracles confirming His Word. We somehow have come to a place that we think we can control someone to do what pleases God. We cannot actually even control ourselves and we think we can control someone else. In reality we are to enjoy intimacy with our Lord daily and give over control to Him. Then we are to trust Him to be in control of where and when we meet, OH and by the way it is you and I who are the chruch, not the building. We are not to go to a man to find out what we need to do to please God. We are to go to God individually and trust Him to help each and every one of us to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling. Thje majority of people who attend the building regularly don't act the way they do in the building on Sunday morning the rest of the week, and they somehow feel justified that they did their duty at the building and now treat people any oh way the rest of the week. To follow Jesus daily it is a every day thing and that is what will change you and everyone you touch, its called COMMUNITY. The person you see at the gas station, the one who is waiting on you at Walmart that you are treating like a servant and demanding service from. I believe you are getting the picture, we are to be about our Fathers business daily and let Him control us and everyone else. Believe it or not He does very well and He is in control. I love all my brothers and sisters in Christ and my prayer and plea is that they all come back to their true freedom in Christ and not let anyone or bulding ever take it away again. AS for Joseph Prince, God has raised Him up to set a multitude free from religion and trying to keep the law. The law was given to prove we can't keep it. The Law is perfect and Jesus is the only one who fullfilled it. Jesus came and we are to live in Him and He in us NOW. That is called living in GRACE. Now ther are some who will not get this. Do not fight with them or waste your time going back and forth with them trying to get them to see it. Just follow Him and pray for them, God is the only one who can make anyone see anything. I look forward to seeing some of you as the Father leads us to meet and He will. Now go and live in the victory that is your NOW. The victory is not out there somewhere that you need to find it or do something to get it. The victory is yours NOW, you are standing in the victory right now, unless you believe and say that your not and have somehow lost it. Jesus said Who the Son set free is free indeed. Your victory is in your heart and your mouth. This is the VICTORY that overcometh the world, even our FAITH. Jesus said, When I return will I find FAITH? Arise and shine for the Light has come and is risen upon each and every one of you.
ReplyDeleteThe building that most call the church is in reality a prison that ultimately ends up elevating man no matter how well intended it started out to be. For almost 2000 years now the devil has established the deception that is very successful today, it is what most call the church. The building that most call the chruch has become widely used by leaders, lay people and pastors as a platform of using fear, guilt, manipulation and intimidation to keep you coming back. That is actually what is called WITCHCRAFT. The Lord called us to go out into the WORLD and preach the gospel and baptize people in the name of the Father, the Son and The Holy Ghost and He said signs would follow us of miracles confirming His Word. We somehow have come to a place that we think we can control someone to do what pleases God. We cannot actually even control ourselves and we think we can control someone else. In reality we are to enjoy intimacy with our Lord daily and give over control to Him. Then we are to trust Him to be in control of where and when we meet, OH and by the way it is you and I who are the chruch, not the building. We are not to go to a man to find out what we need to do to please God. We are to go to God individually and trust Him to help each and every one of us to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling. Thje majority of people who attend the building regularly don't act the way they do in the building on Sunday morning the rest of the week, and they somehow feel justified that they did their duty at the building and now treat people any oh way the rest of the week. To follow Jesus daily it is a every day thing and that is what will change you and everyone you touch, its called COMMUNITY. The person you see at the gas station, the one who is waiting on you at Walmart that you are treating like a servant and demanding service from. I believe you are getting the picture, we are to be about our Fathers business daily and let Him control us and everyone else. Believe it or not He does very well and He is in control. I love all my brothers and sisters in Christ and my prayer and plea is that they all come back to their true freedom in Christ and not let anyone or bulding ever take it away again. AS for Joseph Prince, God has raised Him up to set a multitude free from religion and trying to keep the law. The law was given to prove we can't keep it. The Law is perfect and Jesus is the only one who fullfilled it. Jesus came and we are to live in Him and He in us NOW. That is called living in GRACE. Now ther are some who will not get this. Do not fight with them or waste your time going back and forth with them trying to get them to see it. Just follow Him and pray for them, God is the only one who can make anyone see anything. I look forward to seeing some of you as the Father leads us to meet and He will. Now go and live in the victory that is your NOW. The victory is not out there somewhere that you need to find it or do something to get it. The victory is yours NOW, you are standing in the victory right now, unless you believe and say that your not and have somehow lost it. Jesus said Who the Son set free is free indeed. Your victory is in your heart and your mouth. This is the VICTORY that overcometh the world, even our FAITH. Jesus said, When I return will I find FAITH? Arise and shine for the Light has come and is risen upon each and every one of you.
ReplyDeleteTHE CHURCH
ReplyDeleteThe building that most call the church is in reality a prison that ultimately ends up elevating man no matter how well intended it started out to be. For almost 2000 years now the devil has established the deception that is very successful today, it is what most call the church. The building that most call the church has become widely used by leaders, lay people and pastors as a platform of using fear, guilt, manipulation and intimidation to keep you coming back. That is actually what is called WITCHCRAFT. The Lord called us to go out into the WORLD and preach the gospel and baptize people in the name of the Father, the Son and The Holy Ghost and He said signs would follow us of miracles confirming His Word. We somehow have come to a place that we think we can control someone to do what pleases God. We cannot actually even control ourselves and we think we can control someone else. In reality we are to enjoy intimacy with our Lord daily and give over control to Him. Then we are to trust Him to be in control of where and when we meet, OH and by the way it is you and I who are the church, not the building. We are not to go to a man to find out what we need to do to please God. We are to go to God individually and trust Him to help each and every one of us to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling. The majority of people who attend the building regularly don't act the way they do in the building on Sunday morning the rest of the week, and they somehow feel justified that they did their duty at the building and now treat people any oh way the rest of the week. To follow Jesus daily it is a everyday thing and that is what will change you and everyone you touch, it’s called COMMUNITY. The person you see at the gas station, the one who is waiting on you at Walmart that you are treating like a servant and demanding service from. I believe you are getting the picture; we are to be about our Fathers business daily and let Him control us and everyone else. Believe it or not He does very well and He is in control. I love all my brothers and sisters in Christ and my prayer and plea is that they all come back to their true freedom in Christ and not let anyone or building ever take it away again. AS for Joseph Prince, God has raised Him up to set a multitude free from religion and trying to keep the law. The law was given to prove we can't keep it. The Law is perfect and Jesus is the only one who fulfilled it. Jesus came and we are to live in Him, and He in us NOW. That is called living in GRACE. Joseph Prince is not how ever who you are to follow, Jesus is. Now there are some who will not get this. Do not fight with them or waste your time going back and forth with them trying to get them to see it. Just follow Him and pray for them, God is the only one who can make anyone see anything. I look forward to seeing some of you as the Father leads us to meet and He will. Now go and live in the victory that is your NOW. The victory is not out there somewhere that you need to find it or do something to get it. The victory is yours NOW, you are standing in the victory right now, unless you believe and say that your not and have somehow lost it. Jesus said who the Son sets free is free indeed. Your victory is in your heart and your mouth. This is the VICTORY that overcomes the world, even our FAITH. Jesus said, when I return will I find FAITH? Arise and shine for the Light has come and is risen upon each and every one of you.
Now I am not saying not to go to a building that man calls the church. What I am saying is let it be because God wanted you to go, and leave when He says get out, you are the church not the building, and no matter what any man says to you in the end did you do what God told you to do or a man.
May the Grace of our Lord Jesus be multiplied to you and His love and joy flow thru you to save a dying world and bring in the end harvest.
Yours in Christ,
Ricky Heinrich a son of God
THE CHURCH
ReplyDeleteThe building that most call the church is in reality a prison that ultimately ends up elevating man no matter how well intended it started out to be. For almost 2000 years now the devil has established the deception that is very successful today, it is what most call the church. The building that most call the church has become widely used by leaders, lay people and pastors as a platform of using fear, guilt, manipulation and intimidation to keep you coming back. That is actually what is called WITCHCRAFT. The Lord called us to go out into the WORLD and preach the gospel and baptize people in the name of the Father, the Son and The Holy Ghost and He said signs would follow us of miracles confirming His Word. We somehow have come to a place that we think we can control someone to do what pleases God. We cannot actually even control ourselves and we think we can control someone else. In reality we are to enjoy intimacy with our Lord daily and give over control to Him. Then we are to trust Him to be in control of where and when we meet, OH and by the way it is you and I who are the church, not the building. We are not to go to a man to find out what we need to do to please God. We are to go to God individually and trust Him to help each and every one of us to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling. The majority of people who attend the building regularly don't act the way they do in the building on Sunday morning the rest of the week, and they somehow feel justified that they did their duty at the building and now treat people any oh way the rest of the week. To follow Jesus daily it is a everyday thing and that is what will change you and everyone you touch, it’s called COMMUNITY. The person you see at the gas station, the one who is waiting on you at Walmart that you are treating like a servant and demanding service from. I believe you are getting the picture; we are to be about our Fathers business daily and let Him control us and everyone else. Believe it or not He does very well and He is in control. I love all my brothers and sisters in Christ and my prayer and plea is that they all come back to their true freedom in Christ and not let anyone or building ever take it away again. AS for Joseph Prince, God has raised Him up to set a multitude free from religion and trying to keep the law. The law was given to prove we can't keep it. The Law is perfect and Jesus is the only one who fulfilled it. Jesus came and we are to live in Him, and He in us NOW. That is called living in GRACE. Joseph Prince is not how ever who you are to follow, Jesus is. Now there are some who will not get this. Do not fight with them or waste your time going back and forth with them trying to get them to see it. Just follow Him and pray for them, God is the only one who can make anyone see anything. I look forward to seeing some of you as the Father leads us to meet and He will. Now go and live in the victory that is your NOW. The victory is not out there somewhere that you need to find it or do something to get it. The victory is yours NOW, you are standing in the victory right now, unless you believe and say that your not and have somehow lost it. Jesus said who the Son sets free is free indeed. Your victory is in your heart and your mouth. This is the VICTORY that overcomes the world, even our FAITH. Jesus said, when I return will I find FAITH? Arise and shine for the Light has come and is risen upon each and every one of you.
Now I am not saying not to go to a building that man calls the church. What I am saying is let it be because God wanted you to go, and leave when He says get out, you are the church not the building, and no matter what any man says to you in the end did you do what God told you to do or a man.
May the Grace of our Lord Jesus be multiplied to you and His love and joy flow thru you to save a dying world and bring in the end harvest.
Yours in Christ,
Ricky Heinrich a son of God
THE CHURCH
ReplyDeleteThe building that most call the church is in reality a prison that ultimately ends up elevating man no matter how well intended it started out to be. For almost 2000 years now the devil has established the deception that is very successful today, it is what most call the church. The building that most call the church has become widely used by leaders, lay people and pastors as a platform of using fear, guilt, manipulation and intimidation to keep you coming back. That is actually what is called WITCHCRAFT. The Lord called us to go out into the WORLD and preach the gospel and baptize people in the name of the Father, the Son and The Holy Ghost and He said signs would follow us of miracles confirming His Word. We somehow have come to a place that we think we can control someone to do what pleases God. We cannot actually even control ourselves and we think we can control someone else. In reality we are to enjoy intimacy with our Lord daily and give over control to Him. Then we are to trust Him to be in control of where and when we meet, OH and by the way it is you and I who are the church, not the building. We are not to go to a man to find out what we need to do to please God. We are to go to God individually and trust Him to help each and every one of us to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling. The majority of people who attend the building regularly don't act the way they do in the building on Sunday morning the rest of the week, and they somehow feel justified that they did their duty at the building and now treat people any oh way the rest of the week. To follow Jesus daily it is a everyday thing and that is what will change you and everyone you touch, it’s called COMMUNITY. The person you see at the gas station, the one who is waiting on you at Walmart that you are treating like a servant and demanding service from. I believe you are getting the picture; we are to be about our Fathers business daily and let Him control us and everyone else. Believe it or not He does very well and He is in control. I love all my brothers and sisters in Christ and my prayer and plea is that they all come back to their true freedom in Christ and not let anyone or building ever take it away again. AS for Joseph Prince, God has raised Him up to set a multitude free from religion and trying to keep the law. The law was given to prove we can't keep it. The Law is perfect and Jesus is the only one who fulfilled it. Jesus came and we are to live in Him, and He in us NOW. That is called living in GRACE. Joseph Prince is not how ever who you are to follow, Jesus is. Now there are some who will not get this. Do not fight with them or waste your time going back and forth with them trying to get them to see it. Just follow Him and pray for them, God is the only one who can make anyone see anything. I look forward to seeing some of you as the Father leads us to meet and He will. Now go and live in the victory that is your NOW. The victory is not out there somewhere that you need to find it or do something to get it. The victory is yours NOW, you are standing in the victory right now, unless you believe and say that your not and have somehow lost it. Jesus said who the Son sets free is free indeed. Your victory is in your heart and your mouth. This is the VICTORY that overcomes the world, even our FAITH. Jesus said, when I return will I find FAITH? Arise and shine for the Light has come and is risen upon each and every one of you.
Now I am not saying not to go to a building that man calls the church. What I am saying is let it be because God wanted you to go, and leave when He says get out, you are the church not the building, and no matter what any man says to you in the end did you do what God told you to do or a man.
May the Grace of our Lord Jesus be multiplied to you and His love and joy flow thru you to save a dying world and bring in the end harvest.
Yours in Christ,
Ricky Heinrich a son of God
THE CHURCH
ReplyDeleteThe building that most call the church is in reality a prison that ultimately ends up elevating man no matter how well intended it started out to be. For almost 2000 years now the devil has established the deception that is very successful today, it is what most call the church. The building that most call the church has become widely used by leaders, lay people and pastors as a platform of using fear, guilt, manipulation and intimidation to keep you coming back. That is actually what is called WITCHCRAFT. The Lord called us to go out into the WORLD and preach the gospel and baptize people in the name of the Father, the Son and The Holy Ghost and He said signs would follow us of miracles confirming His Word. We somehow have come to a place that we think we can control someone to do what pleases God. We cannot actually even control ourselves and we think we can control someone else. In reality we are to enjoy intimacy with our Lord daily and give over control to Him. Then we are to trust Him to be in control of where and when we meet, OH and by the way it is you and I who are the church, not the building. We are not to go to a man to find out what we need to do to please God. We are to go to God individually and trust Him to help each and every one of us to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling. The majority of people who attend the building regularly don't act the way they do in the building on Sunday morning the rest of the week, and they somehow feel justified that they did their duty at the building and now treat people any oh way the rest of the week. To follow Jesus daily it is a everyday thing and that is what will change you and everyone you touch, it’s called COMMUNITY. The person you see at the gas station, the one who is waiting on you at Walmart that you are treating like a servant and demanding service from. I believe you are getting the picture; we are to be about our Fathers business daily and let Him control us and everyone else. Believe it or not He does very well and He is in control. I love all my brothers and sisters in Christ and my prayer and plea is that they all come back to their true freedom in Christ and not let anyone or building ever take it away again. AS for Joseph Prince, God has raised Him up to set a multitude free from religion and trying to keep the law. The law was given to prove we can't keep it. The Law is perfect and Jesus is the only one who fulfilled it. Jesus came and we are to live in Him, and He in us NOW. That is called living in GRACE. Joseph Prince is not how ever who you are to follow, Jesus is. Now there are some who will not get this. Do not fight with them or waste your time going back and forth with them trying to get them to see it. Just follow Him and pray for them, God is the only one who can make anyone see anything. I look forward to seeing some of you as the Father leads us to meet and He will. Now go and live in the victory that is your NOW. The victory is not out there somewhere that you need to find it or do something to get it. The victory is yours NOW, you are standing in the victory right now, unless you believe and say that your not and have somehow lost it. Jesus said who the Son sets free is free indeed. Your victory is in your heart and your mouth. This is the VICTORY that overcomes the world, even our FAITH. Jesus said, when I return will I find FAITH? Arise and shine for the Light has come and is risen upon each and every one of you.
Now I am not saying not to go to a building that man calls the church. What I am saying is let it be because God wanted you to go, and leave when He says get out, you are the church not the building, and no matter what any man says to you in the end did you do what God told you to do or a man.
May the Grace of our Lord Jesus be multiplied to you and His love and joy flow thru you to save a dying world and bring in the end harvest.
Yours in Christ,
Ricky Heinrich a son of God
THE CHURCH
ReplyDeleteThe building that most call the church is in reality a prison that ultimately ends up elevating man no matter how well intended it started out to be. For almost 2000 years now the devil has established the deception that is very successful today, it is what most call the church. The building that most call the church has become widely used by leaders, lay people and pastors as a platform of using fear, guilt, manipulation and intimidation to keep you coming back. That is actually what is called WITCHCRAFT. The Lord called us to go out into the WORLD and preach the gospel and baptize people in the name of the Father, the Son and The Holy Ghost and He said signs would follow us of miracles confirming His Word. We somehow have come to a place that we think we can control someone to do what pleases God. We cannot actually even control ourselves and we think we can control someone else. In reality we are to enjoy intimacy with our Lord daily and give over control to Him. Then we are to trust Him to be in control of where and when we meet, OH and by the way it is you and I who are the church, not the building. We are not to go to a man to find out what we need to do to please God. We are to go to God individually and trust Him to help each and every one of us to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling. The majority of people who attend the building regularly don't act the way they do in the building on Sunday morning the rest of the week, and they somehow feel justified that they did their duty at the building and now treat people any oh way the rest of the week. To follow Jesus daily it is a everyday thing and that is what will change you and everyone you touch, it’s called COMMUNITY. The person you see at the gas station, the one who is waiting on you at Walmart that you are treating like a servant and demanding service from. I believe you are getting the picture; we are to be about our Fathers business daily and let Him control us and everyone else. Believe it or not He does very well and He is in control. I love all my brothers and sisters in Christ and my prayer and plea is that they all come back to their true freedom in Christ and not let anyone or building ever take it away again. AS for Joseph Prince, God has raised Him up to set a multitude free from religion and trying to keep the law. The law was given to prove we can't keep it. The Law is perfect and Jesus is the only one who fulfilled it. Jesus came and we are to live in Him, and He in us NOW. That is called living in GRACE. Joseph Prince is not how ever who you are to follow, Jesus is. Now there are some who will not get this. Do not fight with them or waste your time going back and forth with them trying to get them to see it. Just follow Him and pray for them, God is the only one who can make anyone see anything. I look forward to seeing some of you as the Father leads us to meet and He will. Now go and live in the victory that is your NOW. The victory is not out there somewhere that you need to find it or do something to get it. The victory is yours NOW, you are standing in the victory right now, unless you believe and say that your not and have somehow lost it. Jesus said who the Son sets free is free indeed. Your victory is in your heart and your mouth. This is the VICTORY that overcomes the world, even our FAITH. Jesus said, when I return will I find FAITH? Arise and shine for the Light has come and is risen upon each and every one of you.
Now I am not saying not to go to a building that man calls the church. What I am saying is let it be because God wanted you to go, and leave when He says get out, you are the church not the building, and no matter what any man says to you in the end did you do what God told you to do or a man.
May the Grace of our Lord Jesus be multiplied to you and His love and joy flow thru you to save a dying world and bring in the end harvest.
Yours in Christ,
Ricky Heinrich a son of God
Gladys Russel, Jesus met the woman at the well and told her about her 5 husbands and the man she was living with who was not her husband. He then forgave her and gave her wells of living water. Hahahaha from your posting, I imagine you would feel very indignant about that!! 'Jesus she has sins, major sins!! How can you just forgive her sins like that?? She broke the commandments!! You must make sure she has truly repented!' Gladys Jesus came to give us forgiveness of our sins freely!! And He also told us freely you have received freely give!! That's what JP is doing. As for you, be careful....unless it is the LORD asking you to speak against JP otherwise you could be speaking against an anointed of the LORD. Then you've got to be prepared to face the consequences. JP has freed many many many many people from sin and condemnation and turned their lives back to God. I am one such person who kept away from the church for years and years and years because of people like you who lack God's love and grace and kindness. Who only speak of God's jugdement and frightened the hell out of me ever daring to step into church. Until I heard Pastor Joseph Prince and turned from my sin-ful life and felt welcomed at his church. Today I am totally in love with Jesus, I am totally in love with the Word of God. I am subject to live my life led by the Holy Spirit. Gladys how many people have you caused to love Jesus with their whole heart, whole soul and whole body? JP has done for thousands.....and He is truly a man of God.
ReplyDeleteGod bless you and forgive you for speaking falsehood against a man of God.
I agree with the owner of this blog.. Prince teaches greasy grace and never preaches the whole context of scripture, he omits the parts that don't tickle the ears.
ReplyDeleteWe are told to "deny ourselves and take up a cross and follow Jesus" Luke 9:23. According to Prince it's all been done and we have no responsibilities. We come to Jesus on His terms not our own. False teachers abound out there telling people what their itching ears want to hear.
I respect the fact that all of you have the right to express your opinions. However, no person on this earth has the corner on the truth, even when we use the Bible as our guide, as the Bible plainly says that we ALL "see through a glass dimly." When we all get to Heaven, ALL of us will find that we were wrong about probably many things. Because of the Grace of God we will nevertheless arrive safely, if we have made Jesus our Savior and Lord. You would all do well to get the log out of your own eye and not worry about the splinter in Joseph Prince's eye. If you don't like him, don't watch him. None of you truly know his heart like God does, even if you try to by judging his words. If other's want to follow him, it's not your concern, and none of us qualify to be "doctrine police," since the Bible has so many levels of revelation and we'll never master it all. There are so many denominations out there - even non-denominational churches - with SO many different ideas on doctrine. They are all different in some ways. WHO'S RIGHT? Who on this earth determines who is right and who is not? Does error in doctrine disqualify you?
ReplyDeleteThe Gospel is simple, so that all can understand at least salvation. Joseph Prince has said that the thief on the cross, who told Jesus to remember him when He came into His Kingdom, didn't even have time to repent of anything, or do any good works - he just believed that Jesus was the Son of God. Jesus told him he would be with Him in Paradise that day. Joseph Prince has said many times that we have more Grace than we need, but it's not ours so that we can continue to sin, but Grace is to keep us FROM sinning. Charles Swindol wrote a book called, "The Grace Awakening," quite a number of years ago, and he certainly isn't what most Evangelicals would call unbalanced. Having read the book, he doesn't disagree with Joseph Prince's teaching on Grace. He says in the book to, "splat yourself on the windshield of Grace," like bugs that hit the windshield of your car when you drive. He also says that the Grace isn't so that we continue in sin. I would recommend reading the book.
Most of you say Joseph is taking scripture out of context, but most of you are taking what Joseph says out of context - you maybe have not heard the whole message, or are not hearing it as he intends.
And they shall know that you are my disciples by the love you have for one another. Who is right and who is wrong? What is the definition of love? You fullfill the whole law when you allow Jesus to love you and through you so that you might love your neighbour as yourself. Be careful of taking the role as the Judge. Is the fruit this: that people are falling in love with Jesus and becoming like him?
ReplyDeleteI enjoyed your article. I agreed with almost everything you said!! The message that Joseph prince is giving does not line up with the whole counsel of God. He has pulled many verses out of context and used them to teach a false gospel.
ReplyDeleteThere is one point that I do not believe you to be correct in, however. You said that the followers of Jesus, including Paul did not do any of the ceremonial law...This is not true. Remember, Mathew 5:17? Also, we know that Paul took the nazarite vow to prove that he was not in violation of Torah in any way.
You mentioned Galatians 4:10 when Paul states that the Galatians observe days, months, seasons and years... Please look up the greek word these days months seasons and years... The Greek word is Kiros. This is the word meaning Pagan Days, not the Feasts of the Lord from Old Testament. This is a verse that is often used to teach why we should not keep Passover, Shavuot, Feast of Trumpets etc...
Paul kept the Feasts...all the disciples did and the bible teaches that we will keep them again...
I loved your article but i had to point this out... Without the proper teaching of Law, we have no definition of sin. Without sin we have no need for a saviour.
Thanks for the article and please check out what I have written
Thanks for this well written assessment of this very dangerous teaching. We are definitely living in the end times as SO many church goers (but no necessarily born again!) are so into Joseph Prince, Benny Hinn and other false prophets. Sadly, most do not even know the Scriptures and they love to argue rather than listen to the Scriptures which clearly (as you have in this post) teach the error of such doctrines of devils! May the LORD continue to bless you!
ReplyDeleteCross of Christ has made us free from the Law. Without Grace none of us would be saved.
ReplyDeleteRomans 8:2
"For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death"
http://relationship-not-religion.blogspot.com/search/label/The%20Cross%20of%20Christ
http://relationship-not-religion.blogspot.com/search/label/Free%20From%20Sin
http://wedonthaveitalltogether.blogspot.com/
PLEASE WHOEVER WROTE THIS AGAINST JOSEPH I SUPOSE YOU EITHER UNDER THE OLD COVENANT STILL OR NEVER RECEIVED CHRIST. Rom 6:14 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace. PLEASE GET A LIFE AND START TO LIVE UNDER GRACE
ReplyDeleteDanie
How did Abraham know the heart of GOD without the 10 commandments. Was it not by faith?
ReplyDeletewww.fuentesevangelism.com
As much as i want to beleive what joseph prince teaches my heart wont let me my flesh loves it but my spirit , the inner man knows that sin in a beliver must be forsaked and confessed Jesus himself said to people he restored and healed go and sin no more we can only do this by the help of the Holyspirit bible also says you must be Holy for your heavenly father is holy and without Holyness no one will see the Lord.
ReplyDeleteAll of the JP followers sound like cult members. "JP has freed me from sin" "JP has caused thousands to love Christ" "JP has done this, JP has done that"
ReplyDeleteWhat has JESUS done for you? Joseph Prince can't cause anyone to be free from anything, he can't cause anyone to come closer to Christ, only GOD can do that.
Are you guys following Christ or Joseph Prince? Think about it.
1 Corinthians 1:12-13 What I mean is this: One of you says, “I follow Paul”; another, “I follow Apollos”; another, “I follow Cephas[b]”; still another, “I follow Christ.”
13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized in the name of Paul?
Was Joseph Prince crucified for you? Were you baptized in the name of Joseph Prince? Can Joseph Prince forgive your sins and give you eternal life? Seriously.
I have just listened to a CD of JP's:called Grace; victory over Sin, Guilt and Condemnation. Throughout his presentation I sensed a spirit of confusion; of contempt for those who confess their transgression and wickedness and receive forgiveness and cleansing and then draw closer to a good God due to this confessing; an idea of contempt for the law that our Lord has given; of agitaion; of little or no charity(i.e. I sensed no patience no kindness, some boasting; some pride..I Cor 13:1-4)
ReplyDeleteI sensed a twisted view of "grace". A kind of using God as though he were an A.T.M machine. Al take and no surrender of self denial.
A jilting tone in his voice; he harrangued me; he projected nothing of the peace of God.
Jeusu did not come to annul the old covenant but to add to it."/ Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fullfill" ( Matt 5:17). J. P has never intimated this truth. "Through much tribulation you will enter the kingdom of heaven" ( Acts14:22)
. The old covenant we are commanded to use. Yes it is to be used by us. Gal 3: 24; says" Therefore the law was our tutoor to bring us to Christ" This means before we become obedient children of the Father; the law shows us our sinfulness. It succinctly sets out the moral standards of heaven and gently shows us ( me) the composition of my heart; thus instructing us in our need to call on the name of the Lord to save us. Not our own works least anyone should boast( Ephesians 2:10)
It is not redundant as J P. implies. Message contained half-baked theories and many half-truths. He would suck in many looking for instant blessing or instant elevation for themselves. Not the way of the cross.
I don't see any "grapes" in his minstry if it can be called that. I just feel thorns and thistles in my spirit after hearing him on this CD
"Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves" ( Matthew7"15)
J. Prince is the ultimate CULT LEADER I believe. very persuasive; very harsh in his voice; he bangs the sheep
"A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, not can a bad tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Therefore by their fruits you will know them." ( Matt7:18& 19)
Notice the final judgement upon a leader who does not bear good fruit. It is to be thrown in the( not a) fire. ( Rev:20:15) That is the Lake of fire on judgement day i.e the second death. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit ( verse 18)
Thanks Gladys for your full report on that boy. What a deception he is under. What bondage. He would be better to live under the law than under this demon of death. And notice where his teaching comes from.
As for me I shall flee from Joseph Princes rantings; confusing and troubling "new creation" concoctions he calls lectures. These will come from his vain imaginations and not from the Spirit of Holiness. A ministry of death I would say Gladys.
I think you are worried about the wrong things. Don't bash people for what they believe in just cause its different than what you believe in. why do you think your right? Is it because someone told you different? If so then you believe in the word of MAN. If you think God told you in a dream then you need to some help. Step back and think about where your beleifs really come from. Some other MANs opinion about a book that was written and rewritten by MAN. And Jesus was black. And I am white
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteAnthea; you are onto it. You won't get sucked in by this megalamaniac. He has a "bullying" manner don't you think?
ReplyDeletePrince must be gloating over his "New" way to make money. Just use God as a front-page and boldly bawl out high sounding religious phrases about sowing and reaping--out of context for sure---, and repeat ad nauseum about "prosperity" , give lots of "testimonies" of rags to riches stories in front of the cameras,and masses of gulliubles, who are too lazy to seek God himself for the truth, will be duped by this master con-man and cast the contents of their wallets at his trickey feet.
Gosh, a lot better than being a run of-the-mill computer technician in Singapore.!!!
The bloke CRawford ; mate; wise up; we are told to BEWARE of false prophets. The word beware means to make a judgement. When you do this you need to listen to the Holy Spirit who, hopefully is within you. You need to read the scriptues that this charlatan and spiritual gangster who refers to about law and grace. You then fast and get alone and quiten and calm your soul. by doing this you amy , over a few days hear the truth from the mouth of Almighty God himself on these subjects of Grace and law. Cheap grace is just license to live according to the flesh and ignore God's commandments. The religion of J.P is a religion without any cross. That is exactly the religion and age old tactic of the deceiver himself;satan.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteSis Gladys,
ReplyDeleteTo attribute the young man (in your congregation) vilest sexual additions to a "new doctrine" popularized by the book Destined to reign by Joseph Prince, is the biggest lie I have ever heard.
Firstly, there is no "new doctrine". JP Grace Doctrine is no new doctrine. It is the same Doctrine popularized by Paul in the Book of Roman. The Calvinist subscribes to pretty similar grace doctrine. The Puritans who are Calvinists are well known for their piety and Godly living. Pls check that out and read the Book of Roman again.
Secondly, I hope you can be honest with people here. Is the Young man’s addition to sex happen before or after he read the book "Destined to reign"?? If indeed he read the book and become addicted to sex as a result, there are 2 possibilities:
1. The Bible is not true
2. He is the Devil out there trying to pervert Paul's doctrine of Grace
For the Bible in Roman says:
Sin shall not have dominion over you for you are under Grace and not Law. Law here quite clearly refers to the 10 commandments and not the ceremonial law. Pls read again.
Otherwise, I believe the Young man should be able to overcome his sex additions after reading the Book destined to reign, albeit over time. How can anyone who has experienced God's grace and love return the favor by committing more sins, using God's grace as an excuse to sin???
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteDear Anthea,
ReplyDeleteWhy are you so bitter about JP's success? Do you know him personally? If God decided to bless JP like He blessed Abraham, who are you to question that?
If you don’t agree with JP’s grace message, that is fine as there are freedom in Christ. Even in what we believe (to a certain point).
So, why don't you let God deal with him? If he is a false teacher then Jesus will remove him. If he is of Jesus, then Jesus Himself will protect and continue to give JP good success.
With all the denominational debates on Christian “theology” that have been going on for centuries, can we agree that “theology” is not the best prove of “right standing with God” but rather the fruit of the spirit is?
Two years ago, I had the privilege to be in Singapore for 1-1/2 years and I attended NCC (where JP preaches) the whole time. (I’m now backed in the USA.). EVERY sermon that JP preached focus ONLY on ONE thing. What my Lord Jesus did for me and because of what He finished on the cross, I can boldly call our God, Abba Father, and able to enter His throne of Grace ANYTIME. It makes me and my family wants to love Jesus more and more everyday. Also, as I learned how to rest and yoke with Jesus, my life become more stress free. My relationship with my wife and children improved. I also began to see and sense God unmerited favor increasing and surrounding me and my family. I since have brought back some of JP’s materials and being sharing with others around me and noticed similar transformation. So, judging strictly from the fruit of the Spirit standpoint, JP is on the right path.
For those who are familiar with JP’s message you will understand this then I say that by the of the message, you only see Jesus in His beauty and grace.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteSo Gladys, What is your belief? Do you know the difference between self-performance and God's performance on the Cross through His Son?
ReplyDeleteIs your belief reliant on self-effort to achieve holiness?
Thank you for your criticism of JP's revelation...but What is your revelation regarding the finished work of Christ at the Cross? Please enlighten me about the correct revelation so that I may not be deceived!
Jun B.
Manila,Phil.
I was hoping that you would respond to my pleading for the correct revelation of the FINISHED work of Christ on the Cross. Your no response lead me to believe that there is no true revelation.
ReplyDeleteSo pardon me by collecting some major points from your article above in my attempt to ilumminate or bring to light your belief. Please correct me if I am wrong.
I really want to know the truth so that I may not be decieved.
1. The major character of God - is a punishing God and is a God of Judgement and He allows Judgement to fall
2. It is - a person's love for God, persecution, sufferings, fear of God allowing judgement, repentance and practicing zero-sin living, commandments-driven living, holy living - that merit God's plan.
3.A believer is NOT destined to reign in life. Anyone who teaches such fallacy is a false prophet.
(My own opinion: JP is not even a prophet, If I may say. A teacher who focuses on the past like the finished accomplishment of Christ 2000+ years ago at the Cross is not a prophet because he is looking at a past occurrence. My understanding of a prophet is one who focuses on future occurrences.)
4. Condemn your fellow believer who is not living a sinless-life like yourself pertaining to the church-goer who is a sexual addict.
These are what stand out for me from your article. I hope that I am not wrong. And that pondering on these truths will keep me from being deceived.
jun bermudez
Manila, Philippines
Sister Gladys,
ReplyDeletePlease help me in expounding more on your 4 major beliefs. I am having a hard time in embracing those principles to reinforce my basic knowledge of Christian faith.
To be honest...as I ponder more on your beliefs...I end up wanting to abandon my faith.
But that is like cutting-off my HEAD - (Beheading myself)
If there is no brighter destiny for me and I am only faced with a punishing God....then THERE IS NO ESCAPE FOR ME. I tried to stop sinning but I have always failed. I cannot even drive my car at the right speed limit 100% at all times, so how can I be in God's plan if I cannot stop faltering. Please show me your secret to sinless living. Help me.
I turn my TV set on and just the commercials alone already cause me to have unworthy thoughts. So I turn to the weather and that too is not wholesome anymore.
I cannot even get to the level nor earn the right to condemn my fellow believers ,those who are not practicing zero-sin living, because I cannot live a sinless life myself, no matter how I try.
Sister....how do you do it? You obviously earned that right because your introduction in your article emphasizes strongly on condemning the sexual addict in your church and his non-self-admission of his sins and pleasure.
My effort to please God by not breaking the 10 commandments just always lead me to depression and guilt because I always end up breaking one of them. What is your secret in being able to follow the commandments 100% at all times?
Please tell me your secret. You must have already mastered it. You must know the way to escape the punishment of God. How do you DO IT.
Do you have a DO IT YOURSELF, GUIDE TO SINLESS LIVING OR HOLY LIVING?
What steps do you take to enjoy the benefits of God's Grace without being punished? I thought that Jesus finished and fulfilled all requirements at the Cross and PLEASED GOD 100%?
But your contention is that we have to practice holy perfect living:
1. Self-admission of our sins and pleasures to appease God, Yet the same Father states that “Their sins and lawless acts I will remember no more.” in the New Covenant.
2. Take our own Cross for a good performance before God's judging eyes, Yet the Father announced that He is well pleased with His Beloved Son already.
3. Please God by our own efforts of sinless living, This must be the narrow path that you are pertaining to. Have you reached sinless living? If you have then you are the only second, the first only being Jesus - sinless.
4. Condemn the sinner? But only God has that right because He is Sinless. Have you put yourself in that same category - Sinless? Christ died as well for that sexual addict and He needs the invincibility of the Final Offering at the Cross.
5. Toss away the deception of looking at the accomplished work of Christ at the Cross -which is what the focus of JP's teaching.
But Jesus came to accomplish and to obey His Father's judgment of UNCONDITIONAL Love for a sinner. If God is so surprised and so shocked by our sins upon admission, then He would have to design a new means to forgive you. That is reason for the need of the one and only Solution -the Slain Lamb of God as ONE FINAL OFFERING!!!
Now I am confused with your contention!!! I should just give up christianity altogether. because it leads to a DEAD END!!!
Jun Bermudez
Manila, Philippines
I am also puzzled at watching out for a false prophet today. Who is a Prophet?
ReplyDeleteIn all the Scriptures, ONE stood out for me and that's when Jesus prayed, "Father, I pray that THEY may be ONE, just as YOU and I are ONE."
That to me is a real prophet !!! He points you to what is to take place in the future!!!to UNFINISHED BUSINESS!!!!
Joseph Prince is just a teacher not a prophet because he simply points you to the past - the FINISHED BUSINESS of the Author of Salvation. JP is therefore an archeologist or an historian or is a doctor prescribing a cure for alzeimer’s disease (forgetfulness of the past).
What we should be focusing into is the UNFINISHED business which involves the believers' participation in being led by the Holy Spirit towards the UNION of the Bride and Groom - the Glorious Church'S Marriage with the Resurrected Slain LAMB OF GOD!!!!!!
OBVIOUSLY. Everyone contending in this blog is not about the UNFINISHED BUSINESS that Jesus was praying for . He prayed for is ONENESS - THE unfinished business!!!!!
CAN'T YOU ALL FOCUS ON THAT???? Obviously Contention and Division is our business = the Devil’s.
There is only ONE PROPHET in my opinion. The one who is pointing you to UNFINISHED BUSINESS and that is ONENESS!!!!!That's Jesus Himself, the only Real Prophet in my book.
Yet Here we are even devoting our ministries on contending who is a prophet and who is a false one.
Jesus ended all prophets in the new Covenant with 2 Voices in the Wilderness. The voice of the last prophet being - John the Baptist whose ministry of repentance - (SELF-EFFORT) ended up with BEHEADING - NO CONFIRMATION BY THE HOLY SPIRIT.
THEN after John the Baptist points the repentant crowd to Christ whom they should follow......
The Father's VOICE confirmed with His own Prophetic Announcementr >>>>>>"THIS IS MY BELOVED SON IN WHOM I AM WELL PLEASED"!!!! This event ended up with 100% CONFIRMATION BY the Holy Spirit!!!
The Father DID NOT ANNOUNCE..."THIS IS MY BELOVED REPENTANT FOLLOWERS IN WHOM I AM WELL PLEASED…..OHHH YOU CUTE OBEDIENT FLOCK, WELL DONE!!! "
There is only ONE MAN Who PleaseD God....Whom God Confirms, the Holy Spirit Confirms and that's HIS OWN BELOVED SON!!! NOT YOUR performance , NOR your efforts. You are merely a beneficiary OF THE GRACE of a PLEASED GOD by the performance of HIS OWN SON at the Cross!!!!
Notice that the Father announced His being PLEASED in the Past Tense. Because God already saw and experienced the future accomplishment (FINISHED BUSINESS - Completed Obedience) of His Son at the Cross even before it occurred. (Note: God is not constricted by Time or Space...He is always in the NOW tense.)
GOD Spoke and Announced a DONE DEAL "I AM WELL PLEASED.in advance emphatically at the beginning of Christ's Ministry. And here we are striving to please God as if we can supplement what Jesus already FINISHED!!!
Now Brothers and Sisters, Can't we all judge one another like our Father...with UNCONDITIONAL LOVE....AND FOCUS ON one UNFINISHED BUSINESS which requires our cooperation with the Holy Spirit.....
ONENESS.......ONENESSS.....ONENESS......ONENESSS
Can't we all start believing that we are the BRIDE -fully adorned with the LIVING GRACE - ready to be in UNION with the LAMB OF GOD?
Your blog is an evidence that ONENESS is a long ways to go………………………………………………………………….?
Jun Bermudez
Manila, Philippines
JP's followers really don't read the Bible much, as an example, this fan named
ReplyDeleteSlim&slimmer said...
"Gladys Russel, Jesus met the woman at the well and told her about her 5 husbands and the man she was living with who was not her husband. He then forgave her and gave her wells of living water. Hahahaha from your posting, I imagine you would feel very indignant about that!! "
Read it again dude. When did the Bible told you that Jesus GAVE her the living water? So funny you still dared to laugh. The Bible didn't said so. We can just assumed that it happened. Even so, Jesus drew her attention upon her sin first. Unlike JP, who loves to omit talking about sin.
I have come across a JP's fan recently. He wanted to talk all about his new theory but when I quoted the Bible and questioned him, he just ignored them. Obviously those fans don't read much Bible huh? And they want you to know how great JP is. And it's getting annoying as they won't even listen to the Bible. And they love to laugh at you eventually, when they obviously have lost the debates. Laughing just to cover up the shame huh? What a pity...
So as conclusion, this thing is just another Enemy's trick.
Anyway, good job. Gladys Russel.
And Jun, you are just another idiotic JP's fan. And you've just proven that ALL JP's fans are stupid.
ReplyDeleteFYI, JP did prophesy. He talked about when the stock market will be on the rise. Do your research firstly before you post.
Well, if you did your research you wouldn't have believe in JP, won't you? Idiot.
Joseph Prince (JP) claims that he received a divine revelation in 1997. God said to him,
ReplyDelete"Son, you are not preaching grace…Every time you preach grace, you preach it with a mixture of law. You attempt to balance grace with the law like many other preachers, and the moment you balance grace, you neutralize it. You cannot put new wine into old wineskins. You cannot put grace and law together…Son, a lot of preachers are not preaching grace the way Apostle Paul preached grace…"
So the funny thing is that God eventually forgot how did PAUL preached the Gospel. Supposedly Paul preached the grace like Joseph Prince? Paul asked the church to cast out one of the sinful man in the church. And "send them to the Satan so that their flesh could be corrupted". Also, Paul talked about the LAW a lot, including asking the church to obey the 10 commandments.
So now Paul did "balance grace, and neutralized it." What? now God've just accidentally forgotten what Paul preached? That's funny, God is older than you and me. But saying that God didn't remember things is sort of FUNNY.
Who is the one who does not read the Bible, Huh?? Jesus is the end to the law, because he fulfilled them. The law is the whole law, which include ceremonial, sacrificial as well as the 10 commandments. Fai, Pls!! If only you have kept quiet, people would not have known of your ignorance. If you are still not convinced, check with a Bible Scholar.
ReplyDeleteIf salvation still requires our self-efforts of works and ability to keep the 100 commandments, then it is a very complicated and confusing matter. What works and how well must we score before we qualify for salvation? By the way, do you know that God expect 100% performance if it is law-based? Can you be perfect? Are you Jesus Christ? If salvation still require our efforts to keep the law, which is impossible, can we still say it is God’s grace that save? Fai, if indeed your self-effort can in any little bits contribute to your salvation, then indeed you can boast to God a little bit in Heaven:”Glory Glory to God and also me”. What did Paul says? If by grace, then it is no longer works, otherwise grace is not grace, so that no one can boast.
Gladys, I would also like to highlight a very deceiving point you have made. You say that God would send a strong delusion that they should believe the lie and be condemned. What lie?? JP’s lie of God Grace and Jesus Finished work, which cover our past, present and future sins? Fai, if you have read the Bible, you would have known that Gladys makes a mistake there. The bible is talking about the lie of the Anti-Christ and Satan. Question then is who is the Anti-Christ? According to the Bible, anti-Christ is the one who deny that Jesus is the Messiah? Fai, if you are so well versed with JP teaching, then question to you is: “did JP deny that Jesus is the Messiah”? Nothing can be more further from the true. Fai, I would like to give you a word of caution. Be careful of people who tell you that Jesus’s sacrifice and your belief that Jesus is the Messiah is not enough to book your ticket to Heaven.
Well, having said all these, I also want to say that not all of JP teachings I agree, especially the prosperity portion of it. To all JP’s supporters, I am not saying that it is God’s will is for Christian to be unsuccessful in life. God know what is best for us. Christ teaching is that we are to be lovers of God and our neighbors.
Last but not least, whether it is 100% God’s grace or part God’s grace and part self-effort to earn our salvation has been a debate by Bible Scholar for centuries. For me, I believe it is 100% God’s grace. Some part of the Bible may seem to suggest that our effort is necessary, but Bible also says that it is God that enable us to do the good works through the Holy Spirit (fruits of Joy, love peace etc). When we have love, how can there be no good works? Paul says work out your salvation with fear and trembling for it is God (Holy Spirit) that is working in you. We think we are the one doing good works, not realizing that it is the Holy Spirit that’s working in us. All Glory to God for his GRACE!!
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteTo: Fai
ReplyDeleteFai, Joseph Prince did not prophecy. God gave him a word of knowledge as caution to his congregation to get out of the stock market before it crashed some time ago. I myself trade the markets in stocks, index and options. What do you trade.
I did not know JP when the market crashed but I watched the charts and indicators and i was able to get out before the crash and I was able to get back in when the market bottomed. The Lord really makes sure that His family is protected so He gives cautionary wisdom to individuals especially to those responsible for a flock like pastor JP. Thank God for a caring Father.
I am sure you did your research. You just did not know that the market did not rise. It crashed. It is only in 2010 that it started to rise back up. I am curious to know where you did your research.
If I may ask, Fai, What is your belief? I take it from your resistance of Grace, that your way to justification is through the 10 Commandments or the Law, which is the foundation of the Old Covenant.
Paul Spoke of the New Covenant in the Book of Hebrews, and he makes a strong distinction between the Old and the New in the verse below.
Chapter 8:12-13(NKJ)
_______________________________________________
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I wIll remember no more.”
13 In that He says, “A new covenant, ” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
___________________________________________
Notice in verse 13. "He has made the first OBSOLETE." I took the liberty to paste below from Webster's Dictionary the meaning of obsolete...............
................................................
Definition of OBSOLETE
1
a : no longer in use or no longer useful
b : of a kind or style no longer current : old-fashioned
2
of a plant or animal part : indistinct or imperfect as compared with a corresponding part in related organisms : vestigial
— ob·so·lete·ly adverb
— ob·so·lete·ness noun
See obsolete defined for English-language learners »
Examples of OBSOLETE
The system was made obsolete by their invention.
......................................
Fai, I hate to tell you brother. Your fire is operating under on obsolete Covenant. It's time for you to flush it and kindle a new one under the New Covenant. I like your passion...it would be so fruitful if it burns with the fire of the New Covenant.
If you do not know what this "New Covenant" that Paul speaks of, let me know...then we can discuss more about it.
I love you brother.
Jun Bermudez
Manila, Philippines
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThe biggest hypocrite is the Pharisee, who is self-righteous. They thought they can keep Moses law. They did not seek God's way of righteousness, because that would mean humility and poor in spirit, recognizing that they cannot achieve it by themselves.
ReplyDeleteJesus said to them: “You cannot enter heaven; neither do you want others to enter.”
When Jesus said: “Enter through the narrow gate and the difficult way.” Does Christ mean enter Heaven by keeping Mosses Law? If so, indeed it is very difficult, because it is impossible!!
Only God’s Grace can help us overcome sin, albeit over time.
May be may be the message on narrow gate and the difficult way is addressed to the Jews, especially the Pharisees. Because I can imagine that it is not easy for them to put down their pride and admit that they are sinful people also. The made people then believe that they are righteous because they "appear" to have kept Moses law. Was it easy for them to repent and turn to God and accept Christ as their savior? Probably quite difficult. Just a thought. May be right, may be wrong.
ReplyDeleteAnd why the narrow way? Because there is only one way. Christ says I am the WAY and no one comes to my Father except through me.
I am interpreting the message as such because of John 3:16. For God so love the world that he gives his only begotten son that whosoever believes in Him will have eternity life. It is a gift from God (not through our effort), so that no one can boast. Is it then so difficult to accept a GIFT, especially for the elect?
Bible also tells us this: “is God a mere man? Promise and not carry out, say and not do."
Sam, and the next thing that the Pharisees would call you and I is that we are blasphemous. Just as they did to Jesus.
ReplyDeleteBut in fairness to Anthea, I would respond just like Jesus responded...."Father forgive them for they know not what they do."
Anthea, Jesus died for you too. If you were the only one on earth, He would have still paid the price for you at the Cross. His Love for you would not be stopped by your sins. Because He made that choice to be Slain as a Final Offering to the Father to wipe out your sin.
Grace is a Person, not a doctrine. I hope that you meet that Person and be filled with His Love. Yeshua, Messiah!!!
I extend my thanks to you and Fai for your persecution. I receive it in Christ.
I you want to know more about the Person of Grace and the New Covenant, Please ask me any question you have and I will try my best to answer with the Scriptures.
I love you too, Anthea.
Jun Bermudez
Manila, Philippines
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteTo Fai:
ReplyDeleteIndeed JP always omits talking about sin. He only talks about God’s Grace (forgiveness, goodness and blessings). It is very true. 100% spot on.
Question? Do you need another preacher to remind you of all your sins? Aren’t there enough of such preachers? Don’t you know you are a sinner? Or do we NOW seriously need someone to remind us that God is good and that we are children of God the moment we accept Christ as our Savior. Do you remember things like if God is for you, then who can be against you. If God is the one who justify, then who has the right to condemn you? Do you remember things like it is God’s goodness that lead you to repentance?
Look at the Pharisees who are law bound. What’s the outcome? Man thinking is that if you tell people that they are not under law, then they will use it as a license to sin. But what did Paul say? “Sin shall not have dominion over you for you are under Grace and not under law.” So? Shall Pastor talk more about law, sin and God’s judgment or more about God’s grace? Which kind of Pastor do you want to listen to?
Critics of JP always says he take Bible out of context (I don’t disagree that certain part on prosperity seems a little stretched). But I think they take JP message out of context. JP did not ask people to go sin all they want now that they are under GRACE!!
Anthea,
ReplyDeleteMy intent in expounding on sister Glady's contention was simply to understand where she is coming from in terms of her belief. Since I did not get any response from her it is quite obvious from her opposition of JP that there are strong convictions that stands out from her article and I merely pointed them out in the open. I apologize if that offended anybody. I was on the assumption that anyone who publishes a critique on public arena like the internet will be subject to analysis and feedback and I am sure she is aware of that or she wold not have published in the first place.
I appreciate your sentiment toward her and I have the deepest respect for her too. But as I expressed my comments, though I am not agreeable with her contention, I am also entitled to express my views based on my freedom of my own belief and it's defense.
Accusations to smear someone regardless of who it is, is quite bold and must come from a person whose passion incites her to be protective. But she is coming from a defensive stance so it is understandable that she shoots her arrows to protect anyone from what she believes is deception and I thank her for that.
Anthea, please understand that my views will not be acceptable to everybody just as sister glady's. We are merely expressing them thru this blog.
As much as I would like to extend grace to Gladys, I can only be kind and understanding. Grace can only be extended by the Person of Grace Himself Jesus Christ which He already did 2000+ years ago. It cannot come from my own effort because it is free for the taking. Grace already came from Him alone and is here for us to embrace and to receive as a gift.
Grace be revealed to us all!!!
Jun Bermudez
Manila, Philippines
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteAnthea,
ReplyDeleteIf JP is the source of Grace then I would bow down with utmost gratitude, and dedicate my whole life to him.... but you see, Grace cannot come from a man like JP, it comes in the form of God & man the person of Christ. So Why would I worship a man who is simply delivering the same message as myself. JP and I are in the same shoes, a receiver, a proponent and a dependent of Grace.
Before I encountered JP's ministry I was on the side of the law, been taught the Law. I lived my christianese life to please God by my good works and my service. I even went to Bible School to prove to my brethren that I too can finish such a task for the kingdom.
But I drew farther and farther spiritually because I ended up sinning more.
I went into business ventures with the intent of using my earnings for the kingdom and thinking that my efforts would be pleasing to God and that I would solicit His favor by my being entreprenuerial. I was frustrated even more because nothing worked. I was under the impression that God does not honor my efforts or my desire to be a resource for the kingdom. So depression crept in. Bitterness, etc. then I developed heart disease and I had to have heart surgery.
After I heard of JP's messages. I began to see the missing links in my belief that I could not find answers in the past. I then asked the Person of Grace to reveal to me even more the meaning of His Body and Blood.
I received the revelation of His Blood not from JP but by just my own research and my own desire to seek the meaning and significance of His Blood. JP got my attention because He spoke of the significance of the Body of Christ. And that filled in the remaining of what I was asking the Lord for.
I then researched more scriptures about the meaning of each of the sufferings of Christ before, during and after the Cross. For instance, do you know what the thorns on His head was for? The piercing of his side and Heart? The sweat of blood while he prayed at the garden, The nails thru his hands and feet? His betrayal and denial? The vinegar when he was thirsty, The forsaking of His Father? The bruises? The stripes on His Back? The two thieves on His left and right? The Spit and Insults during His walk to Calvary? His Nakedness while He hung on a tree? His battered face beyond recognition? and more that no man will ever bear like He did.
Do you know what each one is for, specifically?
When you do, you will worship no other but the Slain Lamb of God and look at no other for the ONE FINAL RANSOM for your eternal life!!!
Anthea....Do you want to know?
Jun Bermudez
Manila, Philippines
Anthea, I don't think people at New Creation Church worship JP at all. I don't know where did you get this impression?
ReplyDeleteBut God says give honout where honour is due. We just want to give honour to JP for being able to deliver the message of Grace so damn well!!
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteAnthea, Tell us how JP slant the Bible? As I said, I don't agree with everything he says? But alot of what he says is biblical as I do my own research. Initially I also think that his message is too good to be true, but only to realise later that his views has some doctrinal gound from Bible Scholar, espeically the Calvinists. Tell us pls. I think it is healthy to discuss because we will learn something.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteWhere can I get it in Singapore?
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteAnthea, ok Thanks. I have taken a look at some of his interviews online. Will try to read the book if I can find time. My initial thought after listening to some of his interviews is that his message is not much different from JP core message. E.g. The book titled : " The Jesus I never knew" is quite similiar to the Jesus that JP is trying to present to people. A God that is full of true and grace. And not a superpoliceman in the sky, always ready to point finger and find fault with our inperfection, which he claims he has learned from the toxic church in his early childhood..
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteAnthea, will do. Thanks.
ReplyDeleteI would like you to see some points here. PY was struggling with his faith and he was trying to find the answer, and thus the birth of the book titled: "The Jesus I never knew." Why is he struggling with his faith? He says it is the teachings of the Toxic church in his childhood. I suppose it is the teachings of sin, law and condemnation.
Although I agree with him that God is not the Super policeman in the sky, but do you know that they are many people who are trying to be the policeman for God? Look at this blog and you can count. Based on the number of Bible verses quoted by Gladys to condemn her church mate, I think that would qualify her for the appointment of a Superintendent. And people struggle with their faith.
Because of all these policemen and policewomen, God told JP to preach Grace radically. This could well be true. Only JP knows.
The Israelites were captives in Egypt for hundreds of years. God could have saved them much earlier. Why did God wait for so long for Moses to come along? God timing is perfect. Therefore you cannot say that it is a joke that God search for 2000 years for a preacher to preach Grace radically. Anyway I don't think God waited for 2000 years for find one. They are many preachers in this 2000 years who preach the true and grace.
Gladys, Jesus also tells the young rich man to sell all he has and follow HIM. You obviously omit this in your Blog. Is this intentional? If you believe that's a requirement for Salvation, then have you done so? If Jesus happens to be back tomorrow, what are you going to tell HIM? May be may be Christ is going to say this to you:" You teacher of law, have you practiced what you preached?" And then you say to Jesus: "Lord Lord, did I not prophesize in your name? And then Jesus answers:" Depart from me. You who practise lawlessness."
ReplyDeleteDid Jesus really teach salvation by keeping the 10 commandments? I leave it to you teachers of law to find out the right answers to this parable of the young rich man.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteAnthea, I don't think anybody can get 100% right with the Bible. That's not a requirement for Salvation. But one verse you must defintely get it right. That's John 3.16. For God so love the world that He gives his only begotten son, and that whosoever beleive in Him will have everlasting life. It is a gift and not of our own work. This is most fundamental and differentiate Christianity with all other religions. If anyone tell something that contradict to this understanding, point the person back to John 3:16. Remember this, and you will produce the fruits of the Spirit: Love, Joy, peace, Patience. Against such, there is no law.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteAnthea,
ReplyDeleteActually there is only one aspect of Christianity. But according the Bible, there are 2 ministries, the ministry of Moses Law and the Ministry of Grace. The Pharisee teaches the ministry of Law and Paul teach the ministry of Grace. God called the Ministry of law the ministry of death and condemnation and a stumbling block (to the self-righteous Jews). God called the ministry of Grace the Truth.
Paul says:" while the law is given by Moses, Truth and Grace came by our Lord Jesus Christ." Notice, Truth is on the side of Grace. You have to decide which ministry you want to go to.
Don't be afraid that you can be deceived by False Christ and False Prophets. As a true Christian (one who embrace John 3:16) you cannot be deceived. Bible says the False Prophets will deceive if possible, the elect. "If possible" means not possible. Don't be also afraid of persecution during end times and that you may give up your faith in Christ, because Bible also tell us that it is God's love and power that preserve your faith. There are many verses to support that.
1. Jesus says the Father give them to me and no one can take them away from me because the Father is greater than them all.
2. Jesus says he will be with us till the very end. He is the perfecter of Faith
3. Jesus begins the works in us and he will finish it as well.
4. Paul says he is convinced that nothing, principalities and power, demon, trials and tribulation can separate us from the love of our Father which is in Christ our Lord.
So don't fear. God does not give us a spirit of timidity and fear.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete2 Corinthians 3:7
ReplyDelete[ Glory of the New Covenant ] But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away,
2 Corinthians 3:8
ReplyDelete8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious?
Anthea,
ReplyDeleteAnd Jesus did say you cannot mix law and grace. That's the meanings of the parables of old cloth and wineskins. Double mention. Mean it is very important.
Jesus says if you mix, the result is worse tear or bursting. Can u imagine, one day a Pastor says you are under grace, next day you are under law, and next next day you are under grace..... You would be so confused and go mad.
Actually the sequence is like this. You believe and accept Christ as your savior. Salvation took place. Holy Spirit lives inside you. You produce fruits of spirit, of love, joy, peace etc. As a result you live a holy life and produce good works. For e.g. I believe God knows your problem and the Holy Spirit work in Jun and me to educate you.
And not the other way, as we try to do good works to please God and earn our Salvation. This is not Christianity. It is wrong doctrine, because it means glory to us and not to God.
Anthea,
ReplyDeleteGive you an illustration of mixing grace and law. Let’s take Gladys church mate as an example. Salvation took place some years back when he received Christ as his Savior. Now he has some sex additions. Instead of teaching him that his is now under Grace, by reminding him that his body is the temple of God (like Paul did to the Corinthians), Gladys applied the 10 Commandments and condemn him, saying
“Don’t you know that God says Thou shall not commit adultery? You are one of the vilest sex addicts I have ever come across. Are you sure you are saved? I am very sure God will punish your sin, and you will be condemned in Hell. Worse, you believe JP’s lie that all your present and future sins are also forgiven.”
And the church mate starts to question his Salvation and whether he is worthy of God’s grace. Based on Jesus teachings, this will lead to 2 outcomes:
1. He sex additions got worse (i.e. the old cloth tear got worse)
2. He gives up his faith in Christianity (i.e. the wineskin burst).
No wonder God called the ministry of Law the ministry of death and condemnation and Philip Yancey called the ministry of Law toxic teachings.
Now, we have this problem and how do we lead the church mate to repentance? Based on the Bible teachings, we should actually apply more Grace on him. Paul says, where sin abound, Grace super abound. We should remind him:
1. God has indeed forgiven him of all his sins (past, present and future) the moment he receive Christ as his savior, because God not only loves, but God is love.
2. The parable of the prodigal son and that his “Daddy” is still waiting for him to come home. In fact, his Daddy has prepared a fat cow for his return.
3. The parables of the lost coin and the lost sheep and that not only Daddy is waiting, Daddy has also sent someone (JP) to lookout for him and bring him back.
I believe only these teachings will bring back the ‘prodigal son” because the Bible tell us that it is God’s goodness that lead you to repentance and sin shall not have dominion over you for you are under grace and not under law.
Therefore as far as understanding of salvation, grace versus law, faith versus works, I think JP is damn well on the right track and most biblically correct and people called him a false prophet for that. What an injustice!!
Gladys’ hypocrisy has also been exposed. She looks so prosperous. She probably eats well and lives well. She is very educated and I believe she is probably wealthy, quite like the young rich man. I seriously doubt she has sold all she has to follow Christ. Gladys, pls correct me if I am wrong.
Jun, there is no need for you to apologise for being ungracious to Gladys, because Jesus was also ungracious towards the Pharisee. In fact, Jesus was consistently very sarcastic towards them.
Anthea, I believe you have seen the light, if not you will one day. Tell you a truth. I know you so well because just a couple of months back, I went through what you are now going through.
I shall now rest my case.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete"SAM said...
ReplyDeleteGive you an illustration of mixing grace and law. Let’s take Gladys church mate as an example. Salvation took place some years back when he received Christ as his Savior. Now he has some sex additions. Instead of teaching him that his is now under Grace, by reminding him that his body is the temple of God (like Paul did to the Corinthians), Gladys applied the 10 Commandments and condemn him, saying ETC
ETC"
Oh yeah? Then why did paul want to expel an sexually immoral brother in the church? (1st corinthiansv chapter 5)
To JUN
ReplyDeleteYes JP did prophecy. Any words come from God according to the FUTURE IS prophecy.
Don't try to cunningly messed up with words, like JP.
And if you look into the original word of the Bible. Every words come from God is "prophecy", no matter if it is about the future or anythings else.
Come ion, JP's followers, wake up.!
JP did talk about the RISE and the falls of the market. I know it because my friend listens to his sermons EVERY WEEK. I didn't mention the "falls" because my point was: He did prophecy.
ReplyDeleteAnd for SAM, start reading corinthians CHAPTER 5 now. As I have noticed you didn't even read the Bible at all. You just talk like JP did. It's not pure theory from the Bible. My God!
I am now listening to a song, named "Stupid!" The lyrics suit the situation here. lol
JUN said
ReplyDelete"Fai, I hate to tell you brother. Your fire is operating under on obsolete Covenant. It's time for you to flush it and kindle a new one under the New Covenant. I like your passion...it would be so fruitful if it burns with the fire of the New Covenant."
Hahahahaha, tell this to Paul. Because he was the one who wanted to expel a sinful brother, not me. I am ok with sexually immoral guy though. I just don't like smart ass who messed up with Bible theory.
I think I am done dealing with idiots. There can't answer my question, they just ignore it and keep on believing what they did.
ReplyDeleteJust directly answer my question: why did paul expel sinful brother instead of talking grace to them? Seems like JP does a better job then Paul did huh? That would be funny. Since God told JP to "learn from Paul"
Haha
Ok I am done here. I can't keep on debating with idiots and hope them to understand pure light.
For those who is still living in the light like the dear sister who wrote this article in this blog. Good job. Keep staying in the light for Christ's sake.
For those who is living in the light but about to be convinced and converted into the Enemy's trick, like Anthea, Be carefull!!!! Don't listen to the enemy.!!! Keep on staying in the light.
God bless. Bye guys
Fai, Paul expel him because Paul don't want sin to spread in the Church. Paul did not use Mosaic Law to condemn him to Hell, because Paul has no right. It is God who justify.
ReplyDeleteFai, how are you so sure Paul has not counselled him with God's Grace first??
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteAnthea, Thank you. U are really funny....You made my day. You really make me laugh..Almost fell off a chair.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteAnthea, Ok thanks. Will bear that in mind. I also hope you will also remember a little of all those that I have said. I hope one day, you will become a Christian.
ReplyDelete1 Corinthians 5
ReplyDeleteConfronting sexual immorality in the church
1 Everyone has heard that there is sexual immorality among you. This is a type of immorality that isn’t even heard of among the Gentiles—a man is having sex with his father’s wife! 2 And you’re proud of yourselves instead of being so upset that the one who did this thing is expelled from your community. 3 Though I’m absent physically, I’m present in the spirit and I’ve already judged the man who did this as if I were present. 4 When you meet together in the name of our Lord Jesus, I’ll be present in spirit with the power of our Lord Jesus. 5 At that time we need to hand this man over to Satan to destroy his human weakness so that his spirit might be saved on the day of the Lord.
6 Your bragging isn’t good! Don’t you know that a tiny grain of yeast makes a whole batch of dough rise? 7 Clean out the old yeast so you can be a new batch of dough, given that you’re supposed to be unleavened bread. Christ our Passover lamb has been sacrificed, 8 so let’s celebrate the feast with the unleavened bread of honesty and truth, not with old yeast or with the yeast of evil and wickedness.
9 I wrote to you in my earlier letter not to associate with sexually immoral people. 10 But I wasn’t talking about the sexually immoral people in the outside world by any means—or the greedy, or the swindlers, or people who worship false gods—otherwise you would have to leave the world entirely! 11 But now I’m writing to you not to associate with anyone who calls themselves “brother” or “sister” who is sexually immoral, greedy, someone who worships false gods, an abusive person, a drunk, or a swindler. Don’t even eat with anyone like this. 12 What do I care about judging outsiders? Isn’t it your job to judge insiders? 13 God will judge outsiders. Expel the evil one from among you![a]
[SAM said...
ReplyDeleteFai, Paul expel him because Paul don't want sin to spread in the Church. Paul did not use Mosaic Law to condemn him to Hell, because Paul has no right. It is God who justify.]
Serisouly, start reading your Bible. Paul also condemned another sinner by sending him to Satan.!!!!!!!! So you are just a newbie.
====================
[SAM said...
Fai, how are you so sure Paul has not counselled him with God's Grace first??]
Because Paul was far way? He wrote the letter to the church commanding them to expel him? Start thinking with logics?
Ok let's say Paul somehow used a telephone and called that sinner firstly, telling to him about the grace firtly, it's still not JP's style. JP NEVER EVER expels any sinner. According to JP, all sins are forgiven even future sins. So how it's possible that PAUL didn't know about this theory?
Retards.
Fai, it is true that all future sins are forgiven as well. God is "I AM". He is uncaused. All other things are created by him including time. We live inside time and God live outside time. When God says all it means all. Where in the Bible did God say he only forgive our past sins? Before you are born, Christ already died for your sins. Are they future sins. You know what the Bible define as sin? It even go to the extend that when one see something good and not do, that's also sin. No one can live a sinless life. In fact, we still sin daily. If that's not true, no one will go to Heaven.
ReplyDeleteAnd what did Peter said in ACT 8:20?
ReplyDeleteYou shall PERISH with your MONEY!
That's what Peter said to a sinner!To an already baptized church member!
So if you don't like to hear about sin and repentence. Christianity is not for you! Christianity takes sin VERY SERIOUSLY. Even to a stage that our beloved King,Jesus Christ had to suffer that much.
You may go to JP's church, but it's not Jesus' church, it's not the Jesus mentioned in the Bible, it's not the God mentioned in the Bible.
Go create your own theory and your own God. That's what people doing all the time.
So Why are we surprised? Darn it man.
[SAM said...
ReplyDeleteFai, it is true that all future sins are forgiven as well.]
Oh Peter kinda forget about this, did he? He shouldn't have tell him that he will perish then? Because his sin is forgiven? Haha
Debating with a guy with IQ lower than 30 is a wasted of time. So go listen whoever you want to.
Bye
Send someone to Satan does not equate using Mosaic Law to condem the person to Hell. Paul says send him to Satan so that his spirit may be saved. You see. Paul still believe the sinner's Spirit will be saved.
ReplyDelete1 Corinthians 12
ReplyDeleteSpiritual gifts
1 Brothers and sisters, I don’t want you to be ignorant about spiritual gifts. 2 You know that when you were Gentiles you were often misled by false gods that can’t even speak. 3 So I want to make it clear to you that no one says, “Jesus is cursed!” when speaking by God’s Spirit, and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit. 4 There are different spiritual gifts but the same Spirit; 5 and there are different ministries and the same Lord; 6 and there are different activities but the same God who produces all of them in everyone. 7 A demonstration of the Spirit is given to each person for the common good. 8 A word of wisdom is given by the Spirit to one person, a word of knowledge to another according to the same Spirit, 9 faith to still another by the same Spirit, gifts of healing to another in the one Spirit, 10 performance of miracles to another, prophecy to another, the ability to tell spirits apart to another, different kinds of tongues[a] to another, and the interpretation of the tongues to another. 11 All these things are produced by the one and same Spirit who gives what he wants to each person.
Perish with your money because the person believe that money can buy god's gift (and salvation) also I suppose. Will a person who truly believe in Christ will ever believe that Money can buy God's gift??? He does not believe in Christ at all
ReplyDelete[SAM said...
ReplyDeleteSend someone to Satan does not equate using Mosaic Law to condem the person to Hell. Paul says send him to Satan so that his spirit may be saved. You see. Paul still believe the sinner's Spirit will be saved.]
Will be saved, not before Satan corrupted his body huh? Have you ever heard that from JB? And answer my questions about PETER? Noob
What JB said was, all sin has been forgiven, if that was true, why Paul need to send him to the Satan? Ues your brain? How old are you seriously?
ReplyDeleteAm I debating with a 9 years old?
[SAM said...
ReplyDeletePerish with your money because the person believe that money can buy god's gift (and salvation) also I suppose. Will a person who truly believe in Christ will ever believe that Money can buy God's gift??? He does not believe in Christ at all]
No NO NO, so you are not JP's follwer after all. According to JP, all future sin are forgiven.
JP defines beleving Christ as "Believe that Jesus is the son of God"
So as long as any sinner believe Jesus is the son of god all sin are forgiven.
Did you ever pay attention on JP's sermons? Haha
My god!
Which of the 10 commandments has the person broken? It all boil down to believe? He probably does not believe that he is a sinner that need a savior.
ReplyDeleteYep. I did not get that JP message wrong. That's most fundamantal in Christianity. Any person who does not believe in that is not a Christian.
ReplyDelete( verse 5) At that time we need to hand this man over to Satan to destroy his human weakness so that his spirit might be saved on the day of the Lord.
ReplyDeleteThis verse clearly states that Paul and the elders can hand a willfully sinning believer to Satan BUT NOT HIS SPIRIT BUT ONLY HIS HUMAN WEAKNESS. Notice that they are not condemning the sinner to Hell or Eternal Death.
Satan in fact can destroy human weakness only but not a believers Spirit. Paul's ultimate goal to expel the incest practicing believer is still to save his spirit.
(verse 12) What do I care about judging outsiders? Isn’t it your job to judge insiders? 13 God will judge outsiders. Expel the evil one from among you!
In this verse, it is also clear that Paul and the elders or rightful believers can judge sinful believers. But God judges only the outsiders or non-believers.
In fact we are not to associate with them. Notice in
(verse 11 ) (But now I’m writing to you not to associate with anyone who calls themselves “brother” or “sister” who is sexually immoral, greedy, someone who worships false gods, an abusive person, a drunk, or a swindler .)
Note that: An ABUSIVE PERSON is included in the list who can be expelled and handed over to Satan to destroy his/her weakness.
Fai.....most of your blogs have abusive words (stupid, idiot, low-IQ) in them!!!!!
Fai, pls don't be angry. I now know where's your problem. You really don't know what's christianity all about.
ReplyDeleteTo be a Christian, is to believe that we are sinners and the punishment is death. But God love us and send his son Jesus to die on our behalf. As long as we believe in that, God will forgive us and give us everlasting life. After we have been saved us, we still sin, but lesser. But God will not cast us to Hell anymore because Jesus has paid for all our sins. When we sin again, it just make the Holy Spirit in us sad, and should try our best not to make God sad.
Yes we have the right to expel a sinful believer who fall under the list. Judge them in terms of
ReplyDelete1. Do not associate with them.
2. Hand them over to Satan for the elimination of their weakness NOT their spirit. And Still hope for their salvation.
3. Physical expulsion from your midst. Paul compares the contamination as yeast among you or corruption that can dangerously infect the rest of the innocent like a virus. as Act of Preservation of the Clean.
But that's as far as we can judge. Then God judges those who are non-believing world. Not the believers.
Now when expelled. The sinful believer can still be renewed after being chastised by Satan. Notice that even Satan cannot send the believer to hell. Only chastise. Satan truly has his limits set by God when it comes to a believer.
The sinful believer will suffer not under the hands of God but under the hands of Satan.
Take note that it applies to a list not just the sexually immoral.
Fai...I still love you...man. I suggest that just refrain from abusive words. That your spirit might be saved as Paul desires.
Fai...
ReplyDeleteIn 1 Cor 12:9
9 faith to still another by the same Spirit, gifts of healing to another in the one Spirit, 10 performance of miracles to another, prophecy to another, the ability to tell spirits apart to another, different kinds of tongues[a] to another, and the interpretation of the tongues to another.
Notice that Prophecy is one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit.
The Gifts are given to a believer for the common good of the congregation.
If you insist that JP prophecied, so be it. Then he was merely exercising one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Is there anything wrong with that? Any law against that?
So JP must have recieved the prophecy for the common good of his congregation.
Does that answer your question?
Fai,
ReplyDeletetp://www.christianchronicle.org/blog/2011/01/video-9-year-old-recaps-what-hes-learned-reading-the-bible/
Pls listen to this, a summary of the Bible
Anthea,
ReplyDeleteSam's only desire is that you believe in the Person whom JP is preaching about. NOT believe in JP or the doctrine that he preaches.
JP is not preaching a doctrine. He is preaching about a Person - Jesus Christ. The Person of Grace. Jesus is Grace Himself in Person.
I would not believe in JP even if you force me. But I believe in the Person whom he writes and preaches about.
Let me make that distinction.
I do not know JP personally, what his personality is or who is family is. I do not even know his congregation or anyone there. I am in another country. I simply heard and read about the Person that he is preaching about.
That Person I have come to know personally and still learning and knowing every day. The more I know about Jesus, the more I thirst about Him.
JP just defines more clearly who the Person of Grace is as far as what I have heard and read him say about Jesus is concerned.
Now if at some point in time he begins to preach and brag about himself and his own efforts and accomplishments....then that's not about Christ anymore....then I would refuse to listen to any of his preaching about himself. And I hope he does not regress to that. There have been some mainstream pastors who have. -
I hope too that you will come to know the Person
Jesus Christ. He truly is the only one who can give you True and Real Love!!! Not the kind of love that man gives but the LOVE that is truly missing inside your heart that no man can fill.
You may look elsewhere, but you will not find it there. Only you will find LOVE in Christ the way Love is meant to be. Man's love will only use you for selfish reasons and then leave you out to dry. But Jesus's Love will make you flourish and enhance your beauty with His and will never leave you nor forsake you. It is the one and only true Love Affair.
Jesus Loves you with all His Heart and Soul and Spirit, that is why He died so that you do not become separate from Him and not end up in Hell. Hell is a real place. And His primary desire is to bail you out and be with Him forever and He has already done that at the Cross. He bore the punishment of sin so that you are spared from that punishment. So you are curse-free from the penalties of the Law. So that you become the Righteousness of God , fully justified and penalty-free.
___________________________________________
I quote:
2 Corinthians 5:21
For he hath made Him (Christ) to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him.
_________________________________
You cannot work your way out of Hell even if you tried. God loves you so much that He is the one that worked for you by the finished work of Christ at the Cross. Simply BELIEVE in Christ and what He has finished for you. He became the Final Offering to satisfy all requirements of God's Laws so that you do not have to do anything to satisfy God's requirements.
Just Believe in Christ as the One who has already saved you and say it out loud with your mouth.
" Jesus I believe in You and what you have completed in the Cross for me. I believe you are receiving me just the way I am right now. I receive you as a free gift of Grace. I make you my Lord and Saviour."
By saying those words with deep meaning in your heart....you are then spared from eternal death and destruction in hell. You have entered into Eternal Life with God's family, without any extra conditions.
As simple as that! And the Holy Spirit will begin His work inside of you. He will do the work. Not you. Just allow Him to lead you and recognize His supernatural tutorship.
Then life becomes meaningful and full of purpose. You become His special favourite love.
You can talk to Him anytime and He will listen and converse with you deep inside your heart by His Spirit.
I love you Anthea, in Christ.
Then the Bible becomes alive to you and the Holy Spirit becomes your Helper, Teacher, Counselor in understanding the Bible supernaturally not by your own understanding but by His Spiritual understanding.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteJun, M curious, Can u tell us what's the significance of each of Jesus sacrifice, e.eg the torns on his head etc? And where did you get this information? Thanks
ReplyDeleteI really cannot stop laughing. Now I know why JP ask people not to defend him
ReplyDeleteI really wish there could be a thrashing sessions between JP and his Critics, broadcast live on may be CNBC. It would be interesting.
ReplyDelete"SAM said...
ReplyDeleteWhich of the 10 commandments has the person broken? It all boil down to believe? He probably does not believe that he is a sinner that need a savior."
He was baptized. How come he became baptized if he didn't believe that Jesus is the son of God? How come he wasn't a Christian when he believed that Jesus is the son of God?
So he was a Christian, and A christian that Peter said, was about to perish. If he didn't repent. Get it? Noob.
And this proved JP is wrong. According to JP , all sins are forgiven once tou are a Christian. So whatever sin is that, just by thinking that God gift could be bought by money, it would be forgiven, according to JP.
Then why was Peter said the opposite thing? JP more superior than Peter? My ass!!!
-------------------------------------
jun said...
( verse 5) At that time we need to hand this man over to Satan to destroy his human weakness so that his spirit might be saved on the day of the Lord.
This verse clearly states that Paul and the elders can hand a willfully sinning believer to Satan BUT NOT HIS SPIRIT BUT ONLY HIS HUMAN WEAKNESS. Notice that they are not condemning the sinner to Hell or Eternal Death.
Satan in fact can destroy human weakness only but not a believers Spirit. Paul's ultimate goal to expel the incest practicing believer is still to save his spirit.
Oh yeah? But it's not like that according to JP. According to JP, his sin had been forgiven. So there's no need to do anything, like handing his body to the Satan. A body to be corrupted by Satan? Hell that's gonna to be a lot of pain I guess?
But according to JP, sin are already be forgiven. Christian are supposed to enjoy their life. So why did any sinner need to suffer so that his soul can be saved?
This proved that JP is wrong, and you as his follower, don't have logical thought.
jun said...
ReplyDeleteYes we have the right to expel a sinful believer who fall under the list. Judge them in terms of
No NO NO, that's not what JP said. JP said that we have no right to expel any sinner since all sin are forgiven!!!!
Pay attention to JP sermons please.?
------------------------------------------
Fai...
If you insist that JP prophecied, so be it. Then he was merely exercising one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Is there anything wrong with that? Any law against that?
Nothing wrong with that for sure. I was just pointing out that you are stupid by saying that JP didn't prophecy. Get it? Noob.
=========================================
SAM said...
I really cannot stop laughing. Now I know why JP ask people not to defend him
I really wish there could be a thrashing sessions between JP and his Critics, broadcast live on may be CNBC. It would be interesting.
Yeah he would be very amusing seeing who stupid you guys are.
Especially when people reminded JP how Paul deal with sins. And people will also ask JP how come God forgot that Paul DID preach the gospel with a mixture of grace and judgement, not only grace.
Hahahahaha
Anyway, a lot of people are already having fun reading this blog.
So keep on being an idiot. You idiot.
Fai, Thanks for sharing. May I know which Church u attend and who is your Pastor so that I can also go learning something from your teacher?
ReplyDeleteJUN said"
ReplyDeleteFai...I still love you...man. I suggest that just refrain from abusive words. That your spirit might be saved as Paul desires."
This is just another proofs. All JP followers are hypocrite!! Haha, from now on, we shall know that JP followers can love someone they have never seen or never met.
Keep on saying shit, you hypocrite.
=====================================
SAM said...
Fai,
tp://www.christianchronicle.org/blog/2011/01/video-9-year-old-recaps-what-hes-learned-reading-the-bible/
Pls listen to this, a summary of the Bible
That's why I asked how old you are? And why your IQ is below 25?
Since when do we need to listen to a 9 years old boy his opinion about the Bible? That's why you are stupid you know? Clever people don't listen to 9 years old. They listen to the Spirit, who are already 1000000000ETC years old. And he is the ONE teacher that you need to seek for, at all cost. Get it? Noob.
==================================
Read Hebrews 10:26 which is agaisnt JP's preaching
If we deliberately keep on sinning...... NO SACRIFICE FOR SIN IS LEFT!!!!
hAHA, now JP's zombies could start yelling :" No way, the Bible must have been mistaken!!! JP said our FUTURE SINS are all forgiven!!!!"
Haha, have a good laugh and good night. W
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteIt is true our heart is deceitful. How do you apply this verse to JP followers?
ReplyDeleteFai, I would like to thank you for being on our side. Your abusive words allow all people in this Blog to see the differences between the fruits of people under the Law and the fruits of people under Grace. Once again thanks.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteFai, Hebrew 10:26 is talking about the sin of trampling the Jesus underfoot and insult the Spirit of Grace. Look, who is the one keep insulting the Spirit of Grace???
ReplyDeleteAnthea, how do you see the deceitfulness of JP's heart?
ReplyDeleteAll I know is that Gladys heart is deceitful. She purposely omit the requirement of selling all she has to follow Christ. also her many other quotes are taken out of context, and left us with a con without the correct text.
ReplyDeleteverses which Gladys take out of context are as follows:
ReplyDeleteGreat delusion and lie (it should be Anti-christ lie that he is God), 10 commamdments (All law are fullfilled and not just the sacrificial law), Itching ears (should be about myths and paganising of Christianity and not Grace), Fall in the Hand of God (should be taking about the sin of trampling Jesus underfoot and insulting the Spirit of Grace, and not any other common sin, including sexual addict).
Anthea, Look, I can tell you how Gladys heart is deceitful. can u now tell us how JP heart is deceitful??
ReplyDelete[SAM said...
ReplyDeleteFai, I would like to thank you for being on our side. Your abusive words allow all people in this Blog to see the differences between the fruits of people under the Law and the fruits of people under Grace. Once again thanks.]
Stop the farking bullshit will you? Since when did I say that I am a Christian under the Las or when did I even say that I am a Christian?
Your farking stupid mind just keep making up false facts by itself.
Just answer the question about Hebrew 10:26. will you? Or you are just another JP zombie who keep talking bullshit and keep ignoring facts? Yes you are.
Infact, Gladys' suggestion that we still have to keep Moses Law to earn our salvation, is by itself counting Jesus Blood a common thing and insulting the Spirit of Grace.
ReplyDeleteOh Gladys, how dreadful when you fall into the Hand of God. I would suggest that you come out and say something to show your repentance of this GREAT SIN of counting Jesus blood a common thing so that you will not fall into the hand of God
Fai, since you are not a Chirstian, I am not surprise you don't understant Hebrew 10:26 and all other verses as well. How can u when you don't have the Holy Spirit that we have.
ReplyDelete[SAM said...
ReplyDeleteFai, Hebrew 10:26 is talking about the sin of trampling the Jesus underfoot and insult the Spirit of Grace. Look, who is the one keep insulting the Spirit of Grace???]
Oh so now you are quoting Hebrews 10:29 huh? it's a good starting you finally start reading your Bible! Good. Just read some more. Hebrew10:30
The Lord will judge his people!
Will this farking clear your mind now? According to JP, all sin are forgiven, Christian will not be judged. So now you still believe him after reading this verse? Idiot.
Yes it's talking about "sin of trampling the Jesus underfoot " but to whom it talked to? To Christian!!!!
Wake up, zombie! Opss sorry, you won't , since you are a zombie. Ok sorry for that. Don't wake up.
Don't wake up even though JP said that All christian's sin (ie included the sin of trampling Jesus) are forgiven.
So you just proven that JP is wrong!
Don't wake up, zombie! Haha
And you don't even farking know what I believe, and you made up your mind that I got a faith so called "under the law" , that's hilarious! Good job anyway.
ReplyDeleteI can also start making up facts about you now huh?
So you masturbate everyday?(making imaginary facts about you......)
OMG stop masturbating everyday please!!! It proves that you are not a good guy with freedom in the mind!
And you drink alcohol everyday huh?
Stop it will you?
Hahahahaha
[SAM said...
ReplyDeleteFai, since you are not a Chirstian, I am not surprise you don't understant Hebrew 10:26 and all other verses as well. How can u when you don't have the Holy Spirit that we have.]
Come on, this is typically what an idiot will do in a debate. Stealing the opponent's ideas.
Say something creative will you? Huh?
I just said that we have the Spirit and you don't. And now you just copied pasted it?
Good farking Job!
And your so called "spirit" asked you to listen to a 9 years old boy just because your so called "spirit" can't directly talked to you? Good Job!
Keep on living in your own making up imaginary! ZOMBIE!!
I am now listening to the song once popular, called "zombie" Wow guess what? It's completely fit the situation here! lol
Anyone who is not under Grace is under Law. You don't need to be a Christian to be under law
ReplyDelete[SAM said...
ReplyDeleteInfact, Gladys' suggestion that we still have to keep Moses Law to earn our salvation, is by itself counting Jesus Blood a common thing and insulting the Spirit of Grace. ]
If that is true, then it would make the Bible a darn amusing reading material. When asked about salvation,Jesus himself said "Obey the commandments"
So now you are saying that Jesus himself was insulting his own Blood?
Wahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah
I can stop reading amusing book now. Just reading what is writtne by the Zombie is enough to make me laugh the whole morning!
[SAM said...
ReplyDeleteFai, since you are not a Chirstian, I am not surprise you don't understant Hebrew]
Again, idiot. LISTEN AND learn!
Since when did I say that I am not a Christian?
The fact is I never say anything about myself. I didn't say that I am a Cristian --> fact 1
I didn't say that I am not a Christian
-->fact 2
So you can continue making up your mind about ymself which I don't give a fark.
Noob!
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteWhen asked about salvation, Besus says Believe in the one HE (God) sent. Mean believe that Jesus is Son of God and he dies for all our sins.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete[SAM said...
ReplyDeleteAnyone who is not under Grace is under Law. You don't need to be a Christian to be under law]
My ass. You will be given 4 choices even in the school exams. How come there would be only 2 options? Moron!
Listen
2ndPeter 3:16
Paul's letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort (hm.. probably peter should included Zombies as well, but nevermind, let's continues), as they do the other Scriptures, to their own desturction.
And SAM, I assumed when you met Jesus you will tell him this as well?
"Hello My Lord, if one is not under grace he is under law, you shouldn't have told people to obey the commandments, man!People can't be half law half grace man!"
hahahah , will you?
Anthea, we read the whole Bible and that message is consistent about Salvation by grace through faith.
ReplyDelete[SAM said...
ReplyDeleteWhen asked about salvation, Besus says Believe in the one HE (God) sent. Mean believe that Jesus is Son of God and he dies for all our sins.]
Omitted the "repent" part, again? Come on, this trick won't even get pass a guy with average IQ.
ACT chapter 3, Peter didn't omitted the important "repentance" part.
If you think JP is more superior than Peter, go ahead.
[SAM said...
ReplyDeleteAnthea, we read the whole Bible and that message is consistent about Salvation by grace through faith.]
Sorry, faith without deeds is useless.
Under Law mean 'if you don obey my commandments, you go to Hell"
ReplyDeleteUnder Grace mean "obey my commandments for your good and rewards. If you fail, try again."
We don't go to Hell when we fail
[SAM said...
ReplyDeleteUnder Law mean 'if you don obey my commandments, you go to Hell"
Under Grace mean "obey my commandments for your good and rewards. If you fail, try again."]
Except FOR "Trampling Jesus under feets" right? Since there will be no more forgiveness? haha
And did you ever pay attention to JP's messages? JP said that his followers will have the power comes from above to do what the law required to. If that is true, why would you, as a follower of JP, need to "try again"
Haha, OH i see, you are not his follower after all!!
And I have had enough of this shit. His followers would come to me and say it's ok to sin. But when I asked why did JP say that they should have the power to obey the laws, they just ignored it and talked about other things.
Gay!
http://www.gotquestions.org/repentance.html
ReplyDeleteScholar also agrees with JP that repentance means Change your mind. Pls go to the link and check out all other questions that you may have. This is an independent minsitry consist of many Bible Scholars and many pastors. You don't believe me. I hope you will believe them
[SAM said...
ReplyDeleteUnder Grace mean "obey my commandments for your good and rewards. If you fail, try again."]
And come on! This is just your own defination not JP's defination.
According to JP , all FUTURE SINS are forgiven, you are so sure about this yesterday. Now you talked about "try again".
Make up your mind please? If all future sins are forgiven, there is no need to TRY, at all. Logic please?
[SAM said...
ReplyDeletehttp://www.gotquestions.org/repentance.html
Scholar also agrees with JP that repentance means Change your mind. Pls go to the link and check out all other questions that you may have. ]
No need. The bible itself clearly state the meaning for us.
The word REPENTANCE appears when the diciples weretalking about turning away from sins like adultery, stealing, being gay, killings ETC ETC
It's obviously a word use to describe, turning away from SINS.
Since you zombie don't wanna listen to the truth, it would be sure you guys would play trick on words.
Have fun though.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteCheck out all the question on Salvation, expecially the step on Salvation. remember this is an independent ministry and not JP miniistry
ReplyDeleteand sure they have credibility as you can check their credentials
ReplyDelete[SAM said...
ReplyDeleteCheck out all the question on Salvation, expecially the step on Salvation. remember this is an independent ministry and not JP miniistry]
Mostly independent ministry don't omitted the repentance part. Sorry dude.
[SAM said...
and sure they have credibility as you can check their credentials]
Surely they will. Just that they won't omitted the repentance part, like JP does. If they do somehow, they are just from JP's group which, can't be trusted.
Fai, I don't expect you to repent (change your mind) overnight. But I hope it can help you to open your mind a little as you explore the TRUTH.
ReplyDelete['SAM said...
ReplyDeleteFai, I don't expect you to repent (change your mind) overnight. But I hope it can help you to open your mind a little as you explore the TRUTH.]
I dont expect you would even worth a fight on this debate. Since you stopped quoting the Bible anymore.
No fun at all.
You too, don't expect anything.
Repentence from action is just a result of true repentance. So which one is more important, to preach. JP did not omit repentance of action. He says right believing will lead to right living.
ReplyDelete[SAM said...
ReplyDeleteFai, I don't expect you to repent (change your mind) overnight. ]
If you insist that repent simply means "change of mind" which has nothing to do with turn away from SINS.
I am gladly quote you all the BIBLE and make it clear the meaning and how the word REPENT relating to turning away from SINS.
And any Christian with IQ higher than 50 can do that.
Do you want that?
No I guess you won't huh?
Close your eyes, close your ears
Mama, I don't want to see the truth.
hahahaha
[SAM said...
ReplyDeleteRepentence from action is just a result of true repentance. So which one is more important, to preach. JP did not omit repentance of action.].
Lies wouldn't much useful nowadays huh?
Since a lot of people have HIS BOOK!
Yes JP omitted REPENTANCE!
Close your eye close your ear!
Mama I don't wanna listen to the truth!
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteAnd in fcat he has strong faith in that he did not go into the details of right living, which is repetance from actions, in case people put themselves under law again.
ReplyDelete[SAM said...
ReplyDeleteAnd in fcat he has strong faith in that he did not go into the details of right living, which is repetance from actions, in case people put themselves under law again.]
Again, making up facts doesn't help
Tell us that you live with him and you know that he got a good faith? Noob
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteFai, I suggest 2 books for you to read, by Philip Yancey which anthea recommended me to read. titled :' the Jesus I never knew" and "what's so Amazing about grace". You can get it from Singapore library
ReplyDelete[SAM said...
ReplyDeleteI am focussing on Prince teachings and not him. His teachings agree with most scholars. ]
Hahaha
Scholars who? There were millions of scholars nowadays, many scholars don't even believe that God exists.
What did that prove?
The fact is that you can't quote the Bible anymore, now it's time to draw our attention to other stuff.
lol
Same old tricks with all JP's zombie.
lol
[SAM said...
ReplyDeleteAfter my research, I begin to see where he comes from.
Fai, I suggest 2 books for you to read, by Philip Yancey which anthea recommended me to read. titled :' the Jesus I never knew" and "what's so Amazing about grace". You can get it from Singapore library]
Hahah I finnlay get it! Haha
I did your reserches by reading those books instead of the Bible? Hahaha LMAO!
That's how you did your researches huh?
Good Job!
Cut the shit off. How about I suggest you to read one book, named "THE BIBLE"?
Fai, I hope you can keep an open mind and explore first. I hope to converse with you a month later. How about that?
ReplyDeleteThe Bible is not that easy to inteprete, especially the parables. The Bible also tell us we need a preacher.
ReplyDelete[SAM said...
ReplyDeleteFai, I hope you can keep an open mind and explore first. I hope to converse with you a month later. How about that?]
Didn't you say that you don't expect? Now you "hope"? Make up your farking mind please? Do you don't expect or do you "hope"?
This is another symptoms of JP followers. They never can make a firm decision. LOL
We learned a lot about JP zombie today. Thanks for you.
Don't bother, just STFU.
I read the Bible and find some seemingly contradictions, and where can I find the answers except through Gotquestion.com and books. Anyway, I have not read the books i have recommended you. and the books are recommended by Anthea (not me) who is also against JP.
ReplyDelete[SAM said...
ReplyDeleteThe Bible is not that easy to inteprete, especially the parables. The Bible also tell us we need a preacher]
Not a demonic preacher though.
How can I expect much from someone with your kind of attitude?
ReplyDelete